[NA] Collectable 1997 "M" with approximately 120 miles [Archive] (2024)

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adelman

21st December 2009, 04:04

I have a very unusual Miata that I may be interested in selling, but have no idea what it might be worth. Looking for insight, specifically, any comps of similar cars...

This is a 1997 "M", with matching hardtop (never installed), one owner, with around 120 miles on the odo. The car has never been registered. Stored indoors in dry California air, California title on a non-operation certificate. Calendar-related maintenance items done. The car has been driven a few miles every six months just to get the fluids pumping. It has been stored off the original tires, so there are no flat-spotting issues. Needless to say, absolutely no damage history or wear.

Are their even any comps???

tom4416

21st December 2009, 08:54

There was a similar 91BRG that showed up on eBay every once in a while a couple of years ago. It had more than 120 miles but less than 1000 IIRC. The seller was trying to get somewhere around $15K but don't think they ever did although there were some "issues" with the car as to whether it truly only had the stated miles. It eventually sold, but not sure for how much.

A forum member (Frank) sold a <5K mile LE for ~$14K. More miles but a much more desirable car than a 97M because of the low production numbers and the unusual black/red color combination. The color on the 97M has not been one of the more popular colors. OTOH, it's the last year of the NA so has some significance.

There is another member with a 3K mile 92 Sunburst who has turned down an unsolicited $15K offer. Again, a more desirable edition for collectors and an example that is essentially new.

Those are the closest data points I can come up with. If you're looking for pricing advice, I think $15K is probably the upper end of the spectrum so that's probably where I'd start but be prepared to wait quite a while for a collector to come along. I really don't think someone is going to buy it as a new NA as you're into brand new NC pricing territory when Mazda does all the crazy rebating and discounting.

LouG

21st December 2009, 09:07

The responses to this thread should be interesting. What you have here is essentially a new car, but if you search thru the history you'll see opinions that seem to say the '97M was the least popular in the M series. I have some old pic of one's (now sold) 97M and IMO love the color scheme. Maybe it was b/s the Marina Green Mica wasn't the same in popularity as the BRG from '91. The real question might be as to why it was decided to store this particular car as a museum piece. Someone will want it - but as usual, price will be the deciding factor.

Miacobra

21st December 2009, 09:41

Any pictures, of car from several angles, engine bay and interior ?

Frank Reiss

21st December 2009, 12:29

There is another member with a 3K mile 92 Sunburst who has turned down an unsolicited $15K offer. Again, a more desirable edition for collectors and an example that is essentially new.

Small correction, my LE sold for $15k, and the owner of the Sunburst with 3k miles was offered $18k, according to him. Tom paid $21k for a special '91 Sunburst, a one of a kind. Your car should easily fetch $15k, and personally, I wouldn't advertise it for anything less than $19,995, and wait, if you can.

What you have is a new 1st generation car, an opportunity for someone, someone who doesn't want an NC, to buy a new old car for new new car money. An interesting proposition, but not farfetched.

vk707

21st December 2009, 12:39

How do you get a California title if it has never been registered ?

Vehicles on an 'mso' dont need non-op certs. Rather strange set of circ*mstances.

adelman

21st December 2009, 13:01

The real question might be as to why it was decided to store this particular car as a museum piece. Someone will want it - but as usual, price will be the deciding factor.

My wife and I purchased a '93 (black/tan leather) new in 93 and loved it. Come the rumors that Mazda was going to change the body-style in 1998, and we decided that since they couldn't make it better ;-) that they would likely screw it up, making the NA cars the interesting (to us) collectables. We made the decision to "save" a car in early calendar 1997 and at that point there was no question that the car-to-own would be the 1997 M.

I didn't feel it was necessary to dealer-shop on price, since essentially I had all year to make a deal. In February 1997, we walked into our local Mazda dealer and explained to them the car we wanted and that it had to be 100% spotless (no scratches, etc), and the price we were willing to pay (they laughed). I told them to call me when they were having a bad month and wanted to part with the car at that price. In late May 1997 I got that call asking if we were still serious, and if we were, that we had a deal if I could come in before the end of the month. It turned out that we had a choice of three samples, and we didn't want them to drive them from their remote storage to their showroom floor for us to look at, so they took us to the remote storage. We picked what we thought was the "cleanest" one, and sent a flat-bed to the dealer's storage lot to pick it up. At the time, the car had 35 miles on it (btw, the trip odometer matches the main odometer, it has never been reset!). Their DMV folks had a lot of problems with the non-operation certificate; they needed to figure out how to sell the car "born" on a non-operation certificate so as to avoid the high California registration fees on the first year. The car has never had a license plate on it!

We also purchased what we thought would be the important dealer options for the car, starting with a hardtop which we had painted to match the car. When we realized that placing the hardtop on the car would involve drilling interior trim to mount the latches, we also purchased the replacement interior pieces, so the car could be restored to original should we later decide to mount the top (it has never been on). I hated that Mazda went to a 'fake' oil-pressure gauge, so we purchase the earlier-year gauge and sender unit (again, never installed), and of course, the shop manuals. The window sticker had been damaged by running the window up and down, and although the original sticker is still on the car, our dealer got Mazda to issue a replacement sticker which is still in an envelope.

Next up was preparing the car for storage. I found a really good deal on a set of "take off" steel wheels (brand new, $100 for four, which I thought was a good deal until I realized that the seller was also including the chrome rings) and we installed a worn-out set of tires to store the car on. (We had initially considering storing the car off its suspension, but I was afraid that we might end up distorting the body in some other way. I figured suspension parts would always be available in the future, so if we were going to make a problem, keep it being a problem that everyone else would have.) We also considered bagging the car and storing it in a pure-nitrogen environment, but were again concerned about the effect of anaerobic bacteria and the moisture-free atmosphere on things like the leather. We figured California dry-air would be the best environment. We further prepped the car by machining a replacement gas-tank drain plug with a valve for convenient access to drain the tank. The car has been stored brakes off, in neutral, secured by the tiedown rings.

During storage, we uncovered the car twice a year (christmas and the fourth of july) and drove it
approximately 20 minutes, making sure that it full warmed up and exercising all systems (heat, a/c, windows, headlights, radio antenna, etc). Over the years, it accumulated approximately 100 miles from these drives. Oil changes have been done periodically, and we flat-bedded the car back to the dealer occasionally for a full fluid change (we only did the maintenance that common sense said was important to a car never driven). Funny story -- the dealer didn't want to put it with the other customer cars for fear that it might get a door ding or scratch, so they parked it in front of the showroom with the other new cars. Remember that we picked it up at their storage lot? That means that the car never saw the final dealer prep and still had their inventory-number tag on it, which really drove the salespeople's brain's nuts! The car has stored well, the only "problem" with it is the battery is flat (it was removed during storage and stored separately on a three-stage storage charger, but it didn't survive). We still have it, but it isn't a useful battery.

Pictures? I could take some current ones when we have it down in a week or two. We have taken a picture of my wife and I in front of the car every year, so we have the "series" as we've aged and the car hasn't :-). But you don't really
need to see pictures of the car to understand what it is -- it looks like it did the day it left the dealership, inside, outside, chassic, and under the hood.

Since then, things have changed in our lives that make the car no longer "interesting" to us, so for the right price, we'd part with it. In 1998 we started driving electric cars, and over the years we've owned three different GM EV1s, four RAV4-EVs, the second tzero prototype, and now a 2010 Tesla Roadster Sport (we still have five electric cars). If you've ever seen the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car", I'm the one who took the still aerial photographs of the GM EV1 graveyard in Arizona. I couldn't see ever regularly driving a gasoline-fueled vehicle again, so the allure of a brand-new 1997 Miata has dulled, but I'm sure there is someone out there who will see that car for what it is...

Ken

adelman

21st December 2009, 13:05

How do you get a California title if it has never been registered ?

Vehicles on an 'mso' dont need non-op certs. Rather strange set of circ*mstances.

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology, but we have a California title for the car, which was "born" on a non-op certificate. We had to pay the California sales tax, but not the big registration fee (just the $15 or so non-op charge). If you want to call that registered, ok, but it has never had the DMV issue a plate, etc.

MX5MKE

21st December 2009, 13:19

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology, but we have a California title for the car,The term you want is "registered."
non-op certificate.A "Certificate of Non-Operation" means it wasn't "licensed" for use on public roadways.
If you want to call that registeredThat's the proper term, IMO.

Regarding driving a few miles to "keep fluids moving", that's an under-helpful practice, as best I know. Just builds corrosive condensates in the oil, coolant, etc to eat away at the metal, create rust, bad stuff like that. For long, LONG term storage, I'm 'sposin' drain everything from everywhere, park it in a dry spot on the suspension (expecting all the rubber to rot anyway), and let it sit unmolested for however long it's in storage.

What's a Blackhawk-type or Leno-type museum do to preserve a car for REALLY long intervals? That's likely the thing to do. I doubt they take their cars for a drive just to get the fluids moving.

adelman

21st December 2009, 13:32

The term you want is "registered."
A "Certificate of Non-Operation" means it wasn't "licensed" for use on public roadways.
That's the proper term, IMO.

What's a Blackhawk-type or Leno-type museum do to preserve a car for REALLY long intervals? That's likely the thing to do. I doubt they take their cars for a drive just to get the fluids moving.

Proper non-drivable storage is replacing the engine, etc, oil with an oil designed for storage, running the engine briefly on that oil, remove the spark plugs, mist the inside of the cylinders with that same oil, and then install desiccant plugs in the spark plug holes. Then repeat this procedure periodically. Although better from a corrosion point-of-view, this would also involve leaving some of the engine valve springs, etc, in constant compression whereas our method "rotates" this. We have tried to minimize corrosive condensate problems by frequently changing those fluids. There is a big difference between the amount of corrosive combustion byproducts in oil with a few hundred miles on vs oil with four miles on it! Remember also that a lot of the conventional wisdom applies to engines that have been broken in (and hence get a protective coat of varnishes on the engine interior)!

Entropy gets you either way. Third law of thermodynamics says you can't get out of the game.

Sharpie

21st December 2009, 13:35

Awesome story Ken. Thanks for sharing it. I'm with Frank, $19995 and wait and see what happens.

vk707

21st December 2009, 13:36

You drove it 100 miles ? In other words, the car has been operated on California roads in violation of state laws ? Or, do you have a driveway that is 5 miles long ?

Not trying to nit pick here , just trying to ascertain the exact circ*mstances of this unusual set.

koa

21st December 2009, 14:33

Ken

You should take a few aerial shots of the car before you sell it, assuming you can find someone who knows how to do that sort of thing. ;)

Peterdaniel

21st December 2009, 15:21

I think all you jealous/envious people should stop bashing the car and the OP. Its a wonderful find and assuming its in perfect condition, its worth whatever the heck someone would pay for it. Someone who buys this car obviously has a lot of money and most likely would buy it for a collection. Who cares what anyone thinks is the most desirable car? Who cares if its not YOUR favorite color. I happen to LOVE the marina green.. and i hate some of the colors other people love. Big Deal.. Its a beauty and it should sell for a nice chunk of change.

Peterdaniel

21st December 2009, 15:25

oh and before anyone of you throws more stones, tell me who here hasn't some something technically illegal while using their car? If it bothers you that they drove it a whopping 100 miles without paying for the registration, go watch another Julie Andrews movie and make yourself feel better that all is good in fantasy land..

tom4416

21st December 2009, 15:36

What you have is a new 1st generation car, an opportunity for someone, someone who doesn't want an NC, to buy a new old car for new new car money. An interesting proposition, but not farfetched.

Since we're correcting, $19,865 for the 91, the original sticker price because the seller didn't anyone should ever pay over sticker for a Miata ;).

If this was any other special/M edition besides the 97, I'd agree with the $20K starting price but just don't think someone is going to pay that for a 97. Plus, it's not a true two-top car so although the hardtop adds a bit, it's not significant to the car. But heck, why not start high, it's not going to move overnight anyway and maybe Jay Leno will spot the ad! Personally, I wish the OP would put all those pictures up on cardomain or some other site so we can all go and appreciate the car. Especially the series where he and his wife have posed with it each year - that's very interesting (and, IIWM, a little depressing).

tom4416

21st December 2009, 15:39

oh and before anyone of you throws more stones, tell me who here hasn't some something technically illegal while using their car? .

You don't mean like never getting it state inspected because you don't want the ugly sticker on the windshield. Or putting a set of "show tags" on it and then driving it around the block? Or using the registration from another yellow car to pick it up at the shipping company? I'd be shocked, shocked I tell you if any of our members ever did any of these things ;) Of course, in Kalifornia, driving an unregistered vehicle probably has actual jail time associated with it since it hasn't passed smog.

Vince3

21st December 2009, 15:52

It's probably bad timing on your part to try and sell this car in this collapsed economy...

...you've held it this long maybe just hold on to it until when/if the economy ever improves again??

Seems like the bad economy brings all kinds of nice cars out of the woodwork and onto the market....not exactly the type of environment to expect to get top dollar. Just my thoughts.

RFC

21st December 2009, 15:54

Or recreating a license plate on cardboard with Magic Markers? Or covering up the expiration date with a plate frame or putting "license applied for" on a card in the window.

vk707

21st December 2009, 15:55

In this case the credibility of the owner is nearly as important as the car. There are not too many of us car nuts that have not pulled some strings or gone into grey areas to get a car on the road or registered.

However, This owner has all but admitted that his price to defraud the state is only a few hundred dollars. If the price of a crime is so low ....what does that tell you ! I can tell you this.......a California DMV investigator willing to make a name for himself under the banner of making an example and building his/her own carreer just might impound the car AND its owners. Whereupon the price of what it is worth , at least here in California , might be an arguable point ! What would it be worth after it sat outside in an impound yard for a year. Would that happen ? ...well probably not ..BUT , The owner has exposed himself to the possibility.

But dont worry Peter, Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica either. He still cant comprehend how close he came to an indictment.

All could be good if the owner had not admitted that he operated.... a non-op. At least in the leftist empire of the world.

Now if the moderator wants to play 'saint'. Maybe some key words could be axed. But, would that be evidence tampering ?

I sincerely hope this is a genuine article and someone gets the car. I am sure the owner has a lot of PM's.......

JP 92HZ

21st December 2009, 16:19

Sounds like a beautiful car with great care taken to preserve it. Let us know what you decide to list it for, or if you sell it to a member here before it's ever listed... :D

And be sure to contribute the $30 if you sell through this posting.

Good luck.

koa

21st December 2009, 17:02

But dont worry Peter, Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica either. He still cant comprehend how close he came to an indictment.

All could be good if the owner had not admitted that he operated.... a non-op. At least in the leftist empire of the world.

Now if the moderator wants to play 'saint'. Maybe some key words could be axed. But, would that be evidence tampering ?

I sincerely hope this is a genuine article and someone gets the car. I am sure the owner has a lot of PM's.......

My money would not be on the California DMV ever winning this one.

'lilRedRide

21st December 2009, 17:03

You can walk into any Cali DMV office and ask for a temporary move certificate which will allow you to operate an unregistered car on the highway on the date on the certificate as long as it is signed by a DMV employee, like for getting it to the smog shop for example, I'm sure thats what these nice folks did...

Gene-M

21st December 2009, 20:00

Or recreating a license plate on cardboard with Magic Markers? Or covering up the expiration date with a plate frame or putting "license applied for" on a card in the window. Or perhaps making a license plate out of balsa wood (with letters in relief, too) and painting it to a high gloss to look just like metal?:thumbs:D

Okay, I think the car is probably worth $20k, but you are going to have to locate that perfect buyer who:

Has no prejudices about '97 NA (and yes, these people exist)
Who loves the color (and yes, these people also exist)
Who have lots of money to spend on nice cars (yup, they exist too)
Who missed out on buying a new NA when they had the chance and would do anything to have one now, and fit all the above qualifications (yeah, there are some of them around too).:D

Also, if the Miata becomes as collectible as many of us believe it will, you have already done most of the grunt work for the next custodian of this vehicle, assuming that next buyer will want to keep it as an ultra low mileage car for the next decade or so.

It may take you a while to sell it, but the goal of $20k seems definitely worth persuing. I mean, why not?:)

Hawker

21st December 2009, 20:23

adelman,
Wonderful story, thanks for posting all the details. Personally, I find the '96M to be the least desirable of the M series and like the unique color combo of the '97. Would love to see pics if you have the time. Sure hope it goes to an enthusiast.

Steve
'95 Laguna

mogart

21st December 2009, 23:32

The 40 minutes per year could have been done at a track, the car was flat-beeded to.

epi117

22nd December 2009, 00:25

Great Read, good luck, hope you find a buyer that will appreciate the car.

sede

22nd December 2009, 00:38

Great Read, good luck, hope you find a buyer that will appreciate the car.

Ditto!

adelman

22nd December 2009, 01:54

But dont worry Peter, Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica either. He still cant comprehend how close he came to an indictment.

All could be good if the owner had not admitted that he operated.... a non-op. At least in the leftist empire of the world.

Now if the moderator wants to play 'saint'. Maybe some key words could be axed. But, would that be evidence tampering ?

I sincerely hope this is a genuine article and someone gets the car. I am sure the owner has a lot of PM's.......

One wonders if you had to say that in person to me whether you would. Hiding behind your keyboard gives you all sorts of courage. I have no idea why you think that some sort of fraud was committed, but I suspect it has more to do with your values than mine. Fraud would have easily saved the sales tax, but it was paid. I've never said that the vehicle was driven on public roads in violation of California law, and as others have pointed out, if I wanted to drive it on public roads, a one-day permit
is available at very low cost.

adelman

22nd December 2009, 02:06

Thanks all for the responses (well, ok, almost all). At $20K the car is still work substantially more to me than the money. I don't think you can properly use a sale on a car with 3,000 miles as a comp for this car -- a car with 3,000 miles is going to be a very-clean low-mileage used car that is going to be a good bet for any owner who gets it at the right price. This car is a museum piece, and I suspect that very few, if any, NAs like it will surface in the coming years.

tvrbob

22nd December 2009, 03:32

I think they're being generous. The 3K and 5K comps are two of the more rare and desirable NAs ever made, while the '97M is not.

koa

22nd December 2009, 03:44

But dont worry Peter, Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica either. He still cant comprehend how close he came to an indictment.

All could be good if the owner had not admitted that he operated.... a non-op. At least in the leftist empire of the world.

Now if the moderator wants to play 'saint'. Maybe some key words could be axed. But, would that be evidence tampering ?

I sincerely hope this is a genuine article and someone gets the car. I am sure the owner has a lot of PM's.......

You can do an online search and come up with a little info about the him and decide for yourself.

Here's one that briefly mentions the Miata.

http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2004/06/03/solar/index.html

bmw88rider

22nd December 2009, 08:38

I have nothing to add value wise but it sounds like the perfect car to do a complete documentation for any future restorations. Hopefully a lot of pictures can be taken at some point and saved for posterity.

Sharpie

22nd December 2009, 11:06

In a collector world the car is going to be worth more later because it is the last year of the M1 and has been treated like a museum piece. I think it'd be worth the same without the M badges. It's a cool story with solid history and obvious care given to the car. Way to go Ken.

Frank Reiss

22nd December 2009, 11:28

A couple of things, I am glad you defended yourself to the type of slanderous innuendo that is sometimes thrown at new, and at times, not so new, posters.

Secondly, I can appreciate that your passion is translated into a variety of activities/interests, and you are clearly passionate about this car, but the car has a finite value. Your car can set a precedent by being worth in the vicinity of $20k. Anything more than that would have to come from some sort of unusual marketing effort to increase its value. For example, an auction to benefit one of your favorite charities, or being included in a famously attended auction in California, or in Scottsdale in January. My experience indicates that through conventional means, there are VERY few Miataphiles, willing or able, to spend what you think your car is worth.

I am actually curious to know what you think your car is worth, and what you would be willing to take for it, as these two #'s are sometimes vastly different.

IKIGAI

22nd December 2009, 12:02

I am glad you defended yourself to the type of slanderous innuendo that is sometimes thrown at new, and at times, not so new, posters.

Ditto +1. Must be the Holidays making some posters feel insults serve as introduction to new members.

I have no idea if your car is worth 20K (but one of these days maybe Leno will pop for it :)), and I thought it was a nice observation to point out that whatever you got wouldn't be full compensation for your efforts. That said, I too found your OP entertaining and informative and I'm hoping you'll stick around and post often.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Bill_Rockoff

22nd December 2009, 12:30

Koa, thanks for posting that link.

Mr. Adelman, you have stumbled across a weird little vortex (VW-internet pun intended) in the Miata continuum, where a lot of us are passionate about these cars and hold our opinions pretty dearly. A car like your '97 is outside our individual consideration. (Speaking for myself, I generally don't let my ignorance deprive me of an opinion - "don't confuse me with facts, son!") Frank and Tom deal in special Miatas, the rest of us are probably not in a place to put a value, finanical or historical, on your car.

As with the solar array (and the Coastal Mapping) in the article Koa linked, I think your preservation of the '97 is important, but that maybe its importance won't pay off monetarily right away because its value (to an individual, or to society) isn't easily determined right away. How fortunate that you're able to do each of these things without having to depend on a certain return of capital within a certain amount of time.

Whatever you decide to do with the car, I'm glad I stumbled across this thread and the Salon.com article! Gives me a bit of incentive to go play with the roof, gutters, landscaping, and plumbing where I live. (We are probably approaching a water issue in the Atlanta area similar to the commercial electrical issue you Californians have been facing for the last decade or two.)

PS - Hey everyone, it's probably pretty easy to rack up 120 miles in a dozen years without using public roads if you have access to an airfield, or if your property is large enough for you to build a 30kW solar array that doesn't ruin the view from your house. I think we can dismiss that issue as "not an issue."

JTod

22nd December 2009, 12:57

I think it is just too soon to realize the true value of the car. I love the 97M and as the last of the line I think it will be worth good money eventually - 10, 20, 30 years from now. Keep taking the pictures and the occasional drive!

I bet we have crossed paths at AirVenture based on your choices in aircraft:thumbs:

adelman

22nd December 2009, 12:58

I am actually curious to know what you think your car is worth, and what you would be willing to take for it, as these two #'s are sometimes vastly different.

I have no idea what it is worth, which is what brought me here in the first place.

I'm keeping the second card closer to my chest, but let's just say it is unlikely to sell in the near future because the difference exceeds a factor of two. The original plan was to keep it for 20 years. It is no surprise that with any car that the value is minimal at a 10-12 year point; I would expect it to be climbing now.

rjs2005

22nd December 2009, 13:24

I loved the Salon story and your idea to preserve a last-year production model of a car you loved is simply put- awesome. My hats off to you for both.

I'll never in my life get the holier-than-thou attitude that some individuals portray on this and many other forums. The points made by those here are so trivial that they aren't worthy of the space they take. Even if the Adelmans' were driving their non-operational Miata on public roads, I suspect any LEO who stopped them would be more intrigued by the rare nature of the car itself than any "transgression", intentional or not.

For the record, I always have loved the 97M, even though that didn't play much of a factor in my NA purchase. Mine was just at the right place and time for me to buy. Sure there are other rarer examples, even a 97 STO is rarer, but that certainly doesn't diminish the value of the car.

I wonder if Mazda USA would be interested at all.

tom4416

22nd December 2009, 15:34

I have no idea what it is worth, which is what brought me here in the first place.

The value is climbing, won't really take off until it hits the magic 25 year antique stage but even then, doubtful it will be worth a "factor of two". And that's coming from probably the biggest proponent of Miata collectiblity on this forum. However, I doubt you're holding onto it for the monetary value, maybe someday it will be used in a history diorama about the demise of the hydrocarbon powered automobile :(

Why not convert it to an electric vehicle? Several on here have talked about attempting it although I don't think anyone actually has. Heck, Mazda might even help with some their R&D work into electric vehicles. Imagine having a 97 M edition Miata converted to electric in conjunction with Mazda and then first registered as such. That would be a heck of a vehicle to bring to car shows and Miata events!

CRXican

22nd December 2009, 16:01

120 miles or 3,000 it's now a used car.

John Hewitt

22nd December 2009, 16:13

THANK YOU!
.
Having the foresight and financial means to hang onto a soon-to-be classic is appreciated. Value and Worth are words we often use around here. Miata enthusiasts enjoy their car for their own particular reasons. I'm glad you were able to share your story and car's history. Let's hope it ultimately ends up in a place where it is appreciated.

Peterdaniel

22nd December 2009, 16:27

Attention: Please do NOT include us all in one group of Miata lovers that do not like the 97M. I for one think the 93 SE is way the heck overrated and ugly. Puny 1.6L engine Glossy black arse paint is hell to keep up. Red leather is glaring and the BBS wheels just scream sissy womans car. And thats MY OPINION, I do not state it as fact. But given the choice between the two, I would go for the 97M every time.
There.. now you have a bonafide legitimate rebuttal to the 97M haters. Their "factual" comments about its worth have been officially opinionized.

Now that I have most of the forums feathers all ruffled, they know how I feel when they bash the 97M.

Whats the point? To show you that everyone has an opinon. And we all know what else we all have.. Some just stink a lot more than the others do.

The problem with a car like this is not that its a 97M or even that its a Miata.. its that it hasn't been driven and being in such a rare state of condition, it would be very hard TO drive it.. At 20K, its a lot of money to have a trophy just to look at... I know a lot of people ( myself included) who have a hard time driving these kind of cars.. you don't want to put the miles on them since it cost so much and then its even more used!

I would also just as soon buy a nice 20K miles car for less than half the price and not worry so much about driving it.

You? I would drive it since you have had it for so long.. Why deny yourself the pleasure after all of these years.

Better yet, wait until spring, then hit ebay.

Peterdaniel

22nd December 2009, 16:32

And really, what is there that diminishes its value? Hmmmm? what? Color? thats not a valid point. It has all the goodies all the other M edition's did.

its not like an STO which is missing some very key components
Lots of people here think the R edition is the cats meow.
Big deal! Take any 94 miata with a torsen and add a better suspension package and voila! R package..

Bill_Rockoff

22nd December 2009, 17:11

Driver-level cars are everywhere, and if you're going to convert one to electric or keep buying and using up clean examples, there are countless other choices. The real value in this particular M is its time-capsule nature.

I don't think 20 years is a long time for a modern production Japanese car. Heck, a lot of us are still using them as daily drivers after 20 years. Even cars of a collectible nature (Corvettes, Ferraris, Porsches) take longer than that to go from "old versions" to "rare and appreciating in value." A 35 year old Vette or 911 is just now ascending from just an old car to "maybe worth keeping around." It'll be another 10-15 years before those offer some sort of glimpse into a bygone era, and I think Miatas might take longer than that just because they stay in use as real cars so much longer than stuff from 35 years ago ever could.

Now, when Grassroots Motorsports needs a photo for their "50 most important cars over the last 50 years" article 25 years from now, this one might be The One. Especially with the annual photos. (Neat. I do that at my parents' place, I have probably a dozen photos of my son at the end of their dock, one from each year except for a missing one here and there.)

tom4416

22nd December 2009, 17:23

I wasn't aware that anyone "hated" any of the first gen cars and it's a 93 LE - at least get your rant right. It's significant for a lot of reasons you either don't know or don't understand and that's the impetus behind it being deemed (by some) as collectible.

The 93LE was the only car to ever combine the R package bits with all the doodads of a SE/M edition car (and was actually the precursor to the 94R). Mazda also never repeated the color combination again (didn't with the 97M either) and never made as high a contented car again. They were serialized, something they shared with only one other NA, the 91BRG and were the lowest production number of any special or limited edition

And no, you can't just slap the bits on a car and create an R clone - it wouldn't be listed as an R in the Mazda database and thus easily identifiable as a clone. Again, this is all from a collectors standpoint, not a driver.

You're entitled to your very valid opinion as is every one else on the forum. Just try and understand the emphasis behind certain editions and why people might perceive them as more valuable than a 97M, not better, just more valuable. I suspect the OP has other intrinsic reasons why he has kept, and will continue to keep, the car as a museum piece. I only wish it traveled the show circuit as I'd love to see it. Unfortunately, I don't know of any electric vehicles that could tow a car trailer with a Miata on it :D

Eunosb

22nd December 2009, 18:40

The '97 M-Edition is an attractive shade of green, and is even better looking with the hardtop in place.
When someone doesn't care for the color, it is a false claim to say it is unpopular- that is merely a personal judgement (like using the word 'attractive'), and not representative of any group consensus.

If the adelman '97 M were presented this Winter, 2010 at a high profile auction/venue such as Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale, AZ, my guess is that the car could bring $15,000 to $24,000 (tops). A lot depends on the mood of the crowd.

If the seller wants to sell the vehicle due to waning interest, let it go with a bottom line reserve. Get the word out to the world, via an E-Bay ad. For less than $100., the seller could put an ad on autotrader (unlimited time) priced at $whatever. This would let the enthusiast world know it is available. Miata.net is a mere microcosm of the online car world.

At a purchase price around $20,000., any buyer would have a tough decision.
Should the car be driven, and watch the value plummet by ten thousand dollars as it quickly picks up road dirt (like any new vehicle would), or store it for museum/future investment speculation.

adelman

22nd December 2009, 19:24

I only wish it traveled the show circuit as I'd love to see it. Unfortunately, I don't know of any electric vehicles that could tow a car trailer with a Miata on it :D

I'm not adverse to it going to a show or two in Northern California. The only hitch is that doing so might entail washing it (so it was really spotless). I'm not sure if that would hurt the value; it has never been washed since I've owned it! ;-)

But as you point out, I don't have a vehicle that could move it. I do occasionally tow a 1200# trailer with my RAV4-EV, but only locally. Actually, I have a restored 1970 Lincoln Continental that I'm sure would be up to the job, but no car trailer.

tom4416

22nd December 2009, 21:20

I can tell you that the Miata crowd would love to see this vehicle in a show, plus, from a purely material standpoint, it would invoke enthusiasm for the car and lots of talk about it across the general automotive population.

gludlow

22nd December 2009, 21:24

Should the car be driven, and watch the value plummet by ten thousand dollars as it quickly picks up road dirt (like any new vehicle would), or store it for museum/future investment speculation.

Here is a thought experiment; let's compare the 1997 Miata (8th (last) year of first-generation production) to a 1962 Corvette (10th (last) year of first-generation production).

There is a fully restored, award winning 62 Vette on ebay now with a Buy it Now! of $82k. This car is now 47 years old.

47 years from 1997 will be 2044. Let's set aside inflation an work in real dollars.

If a buyer buys it today at $20k, that's a $62k increase in 35 years. Or $1,770/year increase in value.

From a compound interest perspective, that's like getting a 4.1% annual return on a $20,000 initial investment. Of course, with inflation, you'd need a much higher return of rate than 4.1%, more like 7%, to realize a true 4.1% gain.

And that is assuming that the Miata increases in value the same way the most popular American sports car has already done. Doubtful, as much as I love Miatas.

Add to that that there are probably many more super low miles Miatas out there...

What am I getting at again? Oh yea. I think $20,000 is high; I don't even think a person wanting this exact car with millions of dollars would buy it. I think $15k-$18k sound better.

Is it a good financial investment? Clearly not.

Nate91

22nd December 2009, 21:49

adelman

wonderful story. thank you for taking the time to share. much good luck with the sale.

I'm a fan of the M series. the differentiation alone makes them stand out. each in their on way.

Eunosb

22nd December 2009, 23:56

I think $20,000 is high; I don't even think a person wanting this exact car with millions of dollars would buy it. I think $15k-$18k sound better.

gludlow is likely on the money.

There has been a 1990 red Miata for sale for $20,000. for a long time, maybe a year.
It has 436 miles and has been stored since new, in South Carolina.
Now, the owner has dropped the price to $14,900. He says he wants to sell.
It is listed on autotrader.

Many sellers really haven't a clue about how to sell a special vehicle. The best bit of persistance and high quality, do it yourself advertising for a Miata was Frank Reiss's color photo web page for his black and red '93 L.E. And, he succeeded in getting his $15,000!

You must present a comprehensive set of photos, AND price the vehicle realistically.
And be patient.

Nate91

23rd December 2009, 10:28

when I started driving a 14 year old car with 16K miles on it I felt like I was in a bit of a time warp.

can you imagine turning 121 miles 13 years after ...it hasn't been washed?

slammin

23rd December 2009, 10:33

In the last year or two I remember an electric Miata discussed on the forum (sorry, I'm too lazy to search for the thread).

spd2918

23rd December 2009, 11:58

I'm with the posters that wrote the car's collectible value has not yet been achieved. It is a gamble that it will go significantly up in value if you hold on to it, store it, insure it, and continue to service it. But if you sell it now, you will need to find exactly the right buyer.

You should keep it if you get enjoyment from it. If it were purely an economic investment, then you will certainly lose money. Those same 1997 dollars could have been gaining interest in the bank.

I personally don't care for "collecting" or "preserving" cars (but I don't knock those that do). I think cars should be driven and enjoyed. I had a 68 RS/SS Camaro Convertible that I drove to work once a week. My 27K mile 96 black and tan is my winter car. Door dings and rock chips can be fixed.

Good luck with your decision. You might want to look at Barrett Jackson auction results for ultra low mileage sales.

Sharpie

23rd December 2009, 12:09

Ken here is an electric miata that I thought may interest you.

http://www.miata.net/motm/2003/marsh.html

mad pup

23rd December 2009, 12:37

Adelman,

You have something very unique, and the thought and care you put into preserving the vehicle cannot be matched by more than a half dozen other hyper-low mileage Miatas out there (my guess).

You know and we know your car has not realized its full potential in terms of appreciation. Sit on it for another 15-20 years. It's not like you need the cash right?

Down the road, the fact that the 97M isn't as collectible as a 93LE might work in your favor. My guess is that there will be (relatively) many ultra low mileage 93LE garage queens that survive 20 years from now, but not so many 97Ms (since they are considered less collectible). When all the 97Ms in the world are used up and destroyed, yours could be worth that much more to the right collector as opposed to the relatively 'common' 93LE.

eddielasvegas

23rd December 2009, 13:31

I say do this and I'll be there to watch the whole thing. :D

Eddie

If the adelman '97 M were presented this Winter, 2010 at a high profile auction/venue such as Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale, AZ, my guess is that the car could bring $15,000 to $24,000 (tops).

Iguana

23rd December 2009, 14:33

Assuming everything is fully documented, maybe Mazda would be interested in buying it back for their museum for a pretty penny. :dunno:

adelman

25th December 2009, 02:19

Ok, Christmas Eve. The biannual drive ritual. The car is stored on a parking lift, so down comes the lift, the three layers of cover come off, battery reinstalled, gas added, and parking brake set. Up goes the lift and the tiedown safety straps are removed. Down comes the lift, fuel system primed, and the car started. Purrs like a kitten. We take it for a few mile drive up a steep hill so it warms up quickly under load (no public highways were involved in this drive). This time I drive while Gabrielle exercises all of the systems, heat, A/C, windows, mirrors, etc. Camera comes out and I took these pictures. Note the car is sitting on a set of storage rims and tires; the real ones are safely elsewhere. We didn't reverse the ritual; if the weather is good Monday the car takes a flatbed back to the dealer to change all fluids.

Current pictures show the undercarriage, VIN, odometer, the exterior with our 2010 Tesla Roadster Sport and the second tzero prototype, and under the hood and interior. Turns out I was wrong about the mileage; it hasn't hit 100 yet. These pictures were taken before the drive, it now has 93 miles on it.

I've also dug out some old pictures of (1) the flatbed delivering the car the first time, (2) Miata with our 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner Superbird (440+6) and 1999 General Motors EV1 (our second electric car) on the background, (3) Miata with our 'pet' Sony Aibo, and (4) Miata with our RAV-4 EV.

Note the car is definitely dirty. Like I said, it has never been washed.

http://albums.adelman.com/phpix/index.php?album=Miata1997-2009

Ken

JP 92HZ

25th December 2009, 03:36

Ken,

Great pictures - thanks for continuing the story for us! It truly looks new.

I love the "SOKT RKT" plate on the Tesla, one of my favorites.

Do you still have the Roadrunner? Sweet car....even if it is the extreme opposite of the EVs :D

adelman

25th December 2009, 03:45

Ken,

Great pictures - thanks for continuing the story for us! It truly looks new.

I love the "SOKT RKT" plate on the Tesla, one of my favorites.

Do you still have the Roadrunner? Sweet car....even if it is the extreme opposite of the EVs :D

Nope. Got bored with it. Put the deposit on the Tesla an hour after we sold it. Now, that was a rare car...

Ken

Dward

25th December 2009, 10:14

Ken,
I have been following this thread with amazement. That is one nice M edition.
Thanks for sharing the pictures and good luck with your decision on keeping vs. selling.

Dennis

tom4416

25th December 2009, 13:14

Another thanks for sharing. Truly looks new and you've had/have some interesting cars!

Hawker

25th December 2009, 13:57

Thanks Ken,

Enjoyed the Salon article and the pics. A unique car and interesting story.

Steve
'95 Laguna

Dartboy

25th December 2009, 14:18

I thought GM took back all the EV-1's after they "Killed the Electric Car"?

BetweenMiatas

25th December 2009, 18:31

^ Old picture, I think.

Thanks for sharing the story!

adelman

26th December 2009, 03:53

I thought GM took back all the EV-1's after they "Killed the Electric Car"?

Yep, that was an old picture.

Trivia: I took the aerial pictures of the GM EV1 graveyard in Mesa, AZ that
were used in the movie. I was invited to ride-along in the helicopter while Chris and the cameraman shot the video. They ended up using my stills for a lot of that scene. The stills gave it a graveyard feel, and when combined with the GM spokesperson saying that none of the cars would be crushed, was just the "money shot" of the movie.

abacabdan

27th December 2009, 00:36

Great story about your car, thanks for sharing it.

Funny enough, I actually remember reading that story about you back in 04. I loved the thought of putting power back into the grid.

cotenseto

5th January 2010, 20:27

You should drive the car and enjoy it. You could do that for a few years, and still sell it with super low mileage and probably get close to the same dollar amount as if you sell it now.

Anyway, if you can afford a Tesla, you obviously don't need the money. The other posters recommending waiting another 10 years is a mistake. The value is not going to go up much in that time frame. The reason why muscle cars had such value is that they had super broad appeal for being "macho" machines; the majority of car collectors being men. Sure there are a lot of Miata fans but never will they have the broad appeal of Hemi Cuda.

Either way, nice M... good luck.

tom4416

5th January 2010, 20:57

The other posters recommending waiting another 10 years is a mistake. The value is not going to go up much in that time frame. The reason why muscle cars had such value is that they had super broad appeal for being "macho" machines; the majority of car collectors being men. Sure there are a lot of Miata fans but never will they have the broad appeal of Hemi Cuda.

Either way, nice M... good luck.

Only the top magazines in the collector car business, and the most well known car collector in the world, disagree with you ;)

adelman

5th January 2010, 23:56

You should drive the car and enjoy it. You could do that for a few years, and still sell it with super low mileage and probably get close to the same dollar amount as if you sell it now.

We have a '93 for that, but it doesn't get driven much because it is a pain to fuel. I can't even charge the damn thing at home!

Paradox

6th January 2010, 23:25

Store it for another 10 years. Your not going to get what you want for it at this time unless you do some unusual marketing or use it as some sort of trade that you are happy with.

CosmosMpower

7th January 2010, 11:17

I agree that if you can afford a Tesla you're probably not hurting for money and should just keep it forever and ever. Who cares what it's worth, eventually it will be the only "new" Miata around.

koa

8th January 2010, 03:02

It would make a great photo op if Mazda came out with the same color in a new "M" model, say 2017, twenty years after the last NA, ideally the last year of the ND before the NE comes out. I picture the ND having the exact same mileage as the NA.;)

cotenseto

10th January 2010, 23:09

Only the top magazines in the collector car business, and the most well known car collector in the world, disagree with you ;)

I'm not saying the value is going to go in the crapper. But what makes a collectible appreciate is a wide market (demand), exclusivity / rareness, and provenance.

Do you know of precedents? Some sales of NA Miatas that support your disagreement?

Again, I'm not saying it's a worthless car. But to think it would ever sell for 10x it's original value is not based in reality.

gludlow

12th January 2010, 17:05

I just saw this on autotrader.. a red 1990 with under 500 miles, seller is asking $14,900:
Autotrader link, no affiliation with seller (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=269306309&dealer_id=64652371&car_year=1990&rdm=1263330104443&lastStartYear=1981&model=MIATA&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=MAZDA&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=30000&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=61550&advanced=y&end_year=1997&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=753&standard=false&rdpage=thumb)

Seller tried to get $20k, obviously didn't get any offers over $15,000.

tom4416

12th January 2010, 20:21

I'm not saying the value is going to go in the crapper. But what makes a collectible appreciate is a wide market (demand), exclusivity / rareness, and provenance.

Do you know of precedents? Some sales of NA Miatas that support your disagreement?

Again, I'm not saying it's a worthless car. But to think it would ever sell for 10x it's original value is not based in reality.

I'm just telling you what Automobile Magazine, Collector Car Magazine, Classic Motorsports, Hemmings and Jay Leno have said. Every one of them have called the first generation Miata the next collectible (next being defined differently by each source - 7 to 20 years with seven being the antique tag mark at the time of the writing). No, I don't believe for a second they'll ever be worth ten times the original price but I do believe a nicely kept, low mileage, limited/special/M edition car will easily top $25K in five years. Is that a good investment - probably not but it is at least one hobby that has a chance of providing some amount of return on investment.

Remember, the entire production run of NA's in North America equals one year of the original Mustang, so there aren't nearly as many as people think there are, relative to other collectible cars.

tom4416

12th January 2010, 20:24

Seller tried to get $20k, obviously didn't get any offers over $15,000.

Now, that's probably the right price but why does the seller insist on putting up such horrible, low res photos that make the car look orange? I'd be taking a hundred digital shots, pick the best ten to fifteen, do a proper write up and create a little bit of a frenzy for the car. I bet if someone waits a couple of weeks and then offers $12K, they might just get the car for that price because of the poor selling job being done by the seller.

miata_racer

13th January 2010, 23:54

4 pages and not one pic....you suck...

but really...if it's got ABS and a hardtop then I'd think 18-20k is possible....but you're not going to get what you paid.

And most banks won't give someone a loan for a 12 year old car. Low miles or not.

Sorry you never got to enjoy it.

CRXican

13th January 2010, 23:55

4 pages and not one pic....you suck...

but really...if it's got ABS and a hardtop then I'd think 18-20k is possible....but you're not going to get what you paid.

And most banks won't give someone a loan for a 12 year old car. Low miles or not.

Sorry you never got to enjoy it.

attention to detail son!

pics here:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=4257162&postcount=61

slammin

14th January 2010, 10:18

And most banks won't give someone a loan for a 12 year old car. Low miles or not.

I doubt anyone willing to pay 20K for a 12 year old car is worried about a bank loan!

davecarama

14th January 2010, 10:45

That's pretty cool. I have not seen a new NA in 14 years. :)

Thanks for re-posting the pics (or linking to them at least). I miss my '97.

I bet if it were one of the 50 '97 R package cars the conversation here would be slightly different.

Sprout97

14th January 2010, 11:11

So that's what my car looked like when it was first delivered? (I bought my car as a lease return with a couple of scratches and 4662 miles on the clock for $16988 back in Sept. 2000).

Greg 713

14th January 2010, 11:12

I just spent a few mnutes and read through all of the posts on this thread. Here is a legit question to the naysayers and the collectable folks.

Here is the hypothetical situation. This guy is your uncle. He meets up with "Ol Man Death" (to the OP I am not wishing you dead! just play along). Your aunt knows you are a Miataphile. She asks you to sell it for her. She is in no HUGE rush but would like to sell it sooner rather than later and is counting on you to get the most you can from the car. What year color and model along with how it has been stored and cared for is unchangeable. It is what it is. You have no emotional attachment to the car because you have Miatas of your own.

So here are the "$64,000 Questions"
What do you advertise it for?
What do you sell it for?
How do you advertise it? What venues or publications?

Just curious.

davecarama

14th January 2010, 11:29

So that's what my car looked like when it was first delivered? (I bought my car as a lease return with a couple of scratches and 4662 miles on the clock for $16988 back in Sept. 2000).

I bought my '97 in '99 for $14K with 12K miles on it. This car is newer and nicer than my car was... and has more options.

So here are the "$64,000 Questions"
What do you advertise it for?
What do you sell it for?
How do you advertise it? What venues or publications?

Just curious.

I would advertise it for 20K
I would sell it for $15K to the right buyer
I would advertise it in collector car forums, car mags, forums
I would NOT be in a rush to sell the car though. It is a specialty item and the right buyer might take a while to appear. Sales like these collectables take a long time (sometimes not, but usually)

When I sold my Lotus Elise, it had less than 30K miles, was less than 3 years old, still under warrenty, had LOTS of extras, and went for about $5K less than others were going for, because I found the right buyer, and I wanted to be rid of it (I had a long long commute and it was bad bad in snow/ice/rain)... I miss that car :( it took almost a full year to sell.

When I sold my '97 it had tastefull and minimal performance mods, but a good handfull of miles (160K). It was extremely sorted and VERY well taken care of. It took almost a year to sell too.

When I sold my '92 Spec Miata, I sold it for about 4-6K less than I should have. I sold it to a good friend though so I was not upset to do it that way. It took me over a year to sell that car too.

Specialty cars = longer lead time for a sale.

Greg 713

14th January 2010, 11:59

Well since I asked the question here is my $.02 worth.

Ask $25,000
Take anything north of $20,000
Since I have taken a picture or two in my day take GREAT pictures of the car then put the car and description on a Web site.
Advertise with a link to the site.
Advertise it here and if the $$ make sense maybe even become a sponsor with the car for sale or offer Flyin' Miata or RFC a cut of the action to advertise it on their sites, AutoWeek in their classifieds, Hemmings and any and every Miata club site I could find all over the nation. Advertise it on the Miatas at Myrtle Beach site (if they would take an ad) and maybe even ship the car to MAMB. Generate enough talk and buz about the car so people who are not part of this forum would even know about it. Covering all of those bases I think the car would go by May for over $20,000.

Iguana

14th January 2010, 13:18

attention to detail son!

pics here:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=4257162&postcount=61

Yep, RIF. :bang: However, his attitude is right in line with his 'attention to detail.'

miata_racer

14th January 2010, 23:35

True...but it is essentially a new car as someone said :)

And mmmmm yummy...green and tan :)

I doubt anyone willing to pay 20K for a 12 year old car is worried about a bank loan!

kjnkidd

19th January 2010, 09:50

The car is obviously more trouble than it is worth, and is only using up valuable space. For a nominal fee, I'd be willing to come and haul it off so you could be rid of that headache once and for all.:p

Thanks for posting, I enjoyed the story.:wave:

Paradox

21st January 2010, 22:29

I think he should part it out.

My 96M could use almost all of that interior...

BetweenMiatas

21st January 2010, 23:05

I think someone should start a Miata museum and donate it to that. It's about time to start the National Miata Restorers' Society, don't you all think?

Trail_Blazer

26th February 2010, 02:26

Just found this thread. Great story, Ken - thanks for sharing. I think it's hilarious that you bought your Marina Green NA from Marina Mazda!

IMO you'd be losing money if you sold it for $25K or even $30K. The sticker price was $25,835, and that doesn't include the hardtop and what you paid to have it painted, which was probably another $5K. Nor does it include the cost of storage and maintenance, minimal though that has been. You didn't pay to have it stored somewhere off your property of course, but that space still has value. All told, you easily have $35K into this car as it sits now; more if you consider inflation. If you were to keep it for another 10 or 20 years as others have suggested and then got $50K for it, you'd essentially break even.

If you really want to sell it, why not contact the Peterson Automotive Museum in LA? The car is a museum piece, after all.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do with the car.

LouG

26th February 2010, 08:48

...and that doesn't include the hardtop and what you paid to have it painted, which was probably another $5K.

HTs back then weren't that much from a dealer. Weren't they between $1K - $2K, and that was painted?

Fuerte

26th February 2010, 14:21

I think someone should start a Miata museum and donate it to that. It's about time to start the National Miata Restorers' Society, don't you all think?

Both already exist. They are located in Virginia.

drb53

26th February 2010, 14:39

Both already exist. They are located in Virginia.

:D:D:D:D:
Yes they are

Trail_Blazer

26th February 2010, 21:56

HTs back then weren't that much from a dealer. Weren't they between $1K - $2K, and that was painted?

You're right, according to page 2 of this review: http://www.newcartestdrive.com/review-walk.cfm?Vehicle=1997_Mazda_Miata&ReviewID=4247.

I wonder why they're so expensive now?

adelman

4th June 2016, 00:36

I hate to reopen a dead thread, but I thought I would mention that we've decided to see what this car is worth. Sotheby's will be handling it in a no-reserve auction later this month (June 2016) in Santa Monica.

autox25

4th June 2016, 09:08

Keep us posted with the results. I think it is being handled correctly by taking it to auction. Maybe the dealer who bought the Arizona 25 mile 90 will want to add a book end to his display.

Not sure what the comment about National Miata Restorers Society existing means but please give more details.

chacend

4th June 2016, 09:18

Good luck, however I don't see your car currently listed for that auction, will it be added soon?

adelman

5th June 2016, 02:30

Good luck, however I don't see your car currently listed for that auction, will it be added soon?

Yes, we're working on the details now.

adelman

8th June 2016, 14:46

The devil is always in the details. Sotheby's rep has been dragging his feet getting the documents for us to sign, and at this point we don't want a "late" listing that isn't cataloged and marketed correctly. Definitely wouldn't deal with Sotheby's again. Phone call into Barrett-Jackson...

adelman

20th September 2016, 16:41

Finally...

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1997-MAZDA-MIATA--197116

autox25

20th September 2016, 17:22

So are you able to sell with a reserve? At January Scottsdale only the super expensive cars have a reserve.

chriscar

20th September 2016, 17:48

Why is there no mention of the mileage in the Barrett Jackson ad?

tvrbob

20th September 2016, 17:58

Why is there no mention of the mileage in the Barrett Jackson ad?First sentence: "This Miata M-Edition features a Marina Green exterior with tan leather interior and has less than 150 actual miles."

cduplain

20th September 2016, 20:23

Wow, this car is amazing. If I were a millionaire, I would totally buy it!

But, to be honest, I am more fascinated by the owner than I am by the car. Adelman, what was your motivation for buying this Miata and keeping it in this condition? Was it your plan all along? Was it an investment? Did you enjoy just "having" it without driving it? Do you do this with other cars?

Good luck with the auction!

tbearmiata

20th September 2016, 22:56

Wow, this car is amazing. If I were a millionaire, I would totally buy it!

Good luck with the auction!

The story is in the first posts of this thread.

Amati

20th September 2016, 23:31

I've followed the travails of this car with mild interest since I also own a '97M and a '95M, both with under 35K miles.

The '97M is not as collectable as a first year NA6 which usually change hands for ~ $20,000.00 when they are in true time capsule condition so I doubt that the next auctions will bring bids anywhere near this seller's listing price.

At the end every car is worth what someone will pay for it and so far nobody has stepped forward.

Ralph 3.

21st September 2016, 00:09

Say's ReserveNO RESERVE on the BJ site.

scottns

21st September 2016, 12:39

This will be very interesting to watch go over the block. Looking forward to it.... Will this set the stage for future low mileage Miata at big auctions?

Good luck!

Bob_MX5

21st September 2016, 12:55

I see no upside for a "no reserve" auction with this miata...well, no upside for the seller.. If seller believes its a $20k car but audience believes it's a $5k car, seller is screwed.

Reserve can be dropped at any time if bidding gets near sellers desired price.

As scottns asks, will this set the stage? Don't know. Doubt 1 miata sale would be stage-setting whether high or low.

Personnaly, I think the odds of seller getting big bucks is less than a buyer getting deal of the century. Me, I would never gamble as the "first".

billythekid

21st September 2016, 17:10

Wow, this car is amazing. If I were a millionaire, I would totally buy it!

Either a millionaire or a drunk auction patron with a good credit score and about $300 a month...

Well worth 20K IMO ...

GLWS!

Vince3

21st September 2016, 17:15

Doing a "No Reserve" auction on this car is a pretty big gamble in my opinion.

I personally wouldn't do it unless I had an army of shill-bidders with cattle prods on my team. :)

tvrbob

21st September 2016, 17:19

Well worth 20K IMO ...

GLWS!To someone who must have an almost brand new '97 M, yes. To anyone else, not really. I can think of about 10 Miatas I'd rather have for less (sometimes far less) money. The 3,300-mile Silverstone1990 I missed out on a couple of months ago was only $18K. There is no contest on which I'd rather have. I bet everyone here can think of 5 that were for sale in the last year that they'd rather have.

Bob_MX5

21st September 2016, 18:19

...Well worth 20K IMO ...
!

Maybe..to that one unique buyer, but will he/she be there (or on phone)? BJ will sell it for under $10k, at no reserve, and won't lose any sleep over it. This miata will have its one minute of fame on the block, that's for sure, but doubtful it will cross any new price threshold. A 97m is not in demand in the miata-world and won't be at BJ either.

I do hope it does well.

mrmustang

21st September 2016, 18:24

I predict it will sell to a Millennial buyer in the audience.

I further suspect the car will go in to a private collection or museum and not driven

Bill S.

autox25

21st September 2016, 21:31

Bill is right. I also think it will go into a collection as a cheap curiosity. Cheap for a collector but all the money in the world for an enthusiast. 97 not in demand in the Miata world? Like the people in the Miata World are going to bid? Funny! I would want to see the expression on the auctioneers face when someone who couldn't afford a bidders card would ask if it was up to date and baselined based on age and not mileage. hahahaha.

Regarding "No Reserve" I don't think it was an option for the seller. If you were selling a Cobra, Daytona Coupe, 250 GTO, Gullwing maybe.....a Miata pleeeeze. If you have ever been to BJ Scottsdale you'd know that. They are the biggest game in town and they set the rules. I hope the cars does really well. If for no other reason then to clam up the speculators who talk a big game but that's about it.

tom4416

21st September 2016, 22:17

Anybody know what BJ's online bidder registration fee is? Seems reasonable to register, be online when it pops up and what the heck, be prepared to throw out $10K in case it escapes the notice of anyone with real money to spend. If it then ends up at $20K, so much the better for the seller.

tvrbob

21st September 2016, 22:30

JP 92HZ

21st September 2016, 22:46

You do an awful lotta talkin' about people supposedly talkin'. Way more talkin' than the talkin' you're talkin' about.

Vince3

22nd September 2016, 00:41

OK Miata experts let's have a little fun.

Everybody put on their big-boy pants and let's start doing some "final bid" guess-timating! :) :)

autox25

22nd September 2016, 08:31

I think 4400 posts clearly shows who's talkin to talk. I'm guessing the majority were in this section of the forum where talk is cheap. That Silverstone got away from you? To bad but maybe a blessing in disguise. This is a much better opportunity. Once you register to bid let us know your bidder number. Be sure to get the guy who waves the handkerchief over his head so we know it's you bidding.

Again guesses are cheap. Put some skin in the game with a $25 guessing fee. Need a Paypal account for gifting your donation. If within say $250 of final number Winner takes all. No winner and we roll it over.

Cincycaddy

22nd September 2016, 08:36

autox25

22nd September 2016, 08:38

Not gambling. Let's call it a raffle where you pick the winning number.

scottns

22nd September 2016, 09:53

OK Miata experts let's have a little fun.

Everybody put on their big-boy pants and let's start doing some "final bid" guess-timating! :) :)

I don't think it will do well at this venue. Seems like BJ is all about American Muscle cars these days and I think something like this will just be a novelty to most of the buyers. Outside of the Miata community I don't think there is any demand for primo Miatas. I guess $9000 (although I do hope I'm wrong and he does well).

tvrbob

22nd September 2016, 10:05

I would certainly own this car at the right price, but my right price is likely a lot less than someone else's. Will those someone elses be bidding? I have no idea.

If I were to buy a Miata to put away in hopes of it appreciating, a '97 M wouldn't even be in my Top 10. Other than the '95 M, M Editions aren't particularly sought after. And I say that as someone who owns and loves a '94 M, which I bought not because it was an M, but because it was low-mileage, inexpensive, nearby, and I needed a driver.

If the registration and bidding process is free and easy, I might register and be ready in case no one is bidding real money. I don't know what the likelihood of that is. I don't make a habit of trying to predict others' behavior. It wouldn't surprise me if this car went for $10K and it wouldn't surprise me if it went for $30K.

And FYI, very few of my posts are in this section. Most of them are in Car Talk, which, judging by its name, is for people who like to talk.

stimpy14

22nd September 2016, 10:14

OK Miata experts let's have a little fun.

Everybody put on their big-boy pants and let's start doing some "final bid" guess-timating! :) :)

$13,500.

Rod Knock

22nd September 2016, 13:20

$13,500.

That's a pretty darn good guess. If this were the "Price Is Right", then I'd say $13,501.

tvrbob

22nd September 2016, 14:31

That's a pretty darn good guess. If this were the "Price Is Right", then I'd say $13,501.

While the mileage is uber-collector quality, the '97M Marina Green is one of the worst colors ever painted on the NA. Right up there with the NB's Crystal Blue. With all due respect to Amati and other owners of these colors.Color is definitely subjective and it's certainly not one of the most loved colors. I happen to like it a lot. I also happen to like Crystal Blue.

Things I don't like about the '97 M are the chrome wheels, the '97 door panels with the shoulder bolsters (or whatever they are), the pile carpet, and the later style seats. I have a near-mint set of BBS RG-F 15" forged wheels that would go great on this car. I also have two brand new '94 M polished hollow spokes that would look great. (I am slowly putting together a whole set, and could accelerate the pace, if ) I believe that the loop style carpets can still be obtained, though they're not cheap.

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to have this car. I do suspect there will be someone(s) with more desire and deeper pockets than I have.

The $13,500 is not a bad guess, though I wouldn't be surprised to see it double that. I honestly don't even have a guess.

autox25

22nd September 2016, 14:52

Guesstimators please forward your $25 fee to ......... Do we have that set up yet? Although Bob is looking for Free and Easy nothing in life is for free. Bob just remember there is a 10% buyers fee on top of your winning bid. Got that?

Sharpie

22nd September 2016, 14:58

To a collector or museum, it's the last NA model and that is going to play into how special it is to someone with an unlimited budget. It'll be interesting. At Barrett-Jackson it could come down to time of day. It'll bring more after the drinks start flowing.

I guess $19,250.

tvrbob

22nd September 2016, 15:09

Purchasing a car for Investing means you buy the best which is available. You don't have to like the color, options, etc. your just in it for a profit. So get over the fact that it's not in your top 10. Doesn't matter one bit. Since you were buying the Silverstone that got away at $$18k I figure you have to think this one will go for more.I am not an investor. I buy Miatas to drive, because I love them, not because I think I can turn a profit. When I bought the M Edition six months ago, I had someone hounding me to sell it. I could have made 50% with absolutely no effort on my part. Probably closer to 75% if I sold the extra brand new parts that came with it.

I am not looking for free and easy. I am probably as willing as anyone here to "overpay" for the right car. If you know someone with a low-mileage Silverstone, please tell him or her to contact me. If the car is right for me, I'll offer a fair price. And that's not because I think the value will rise. It's because it has sentimental value to me and I like it.

As for the investing bit, it does not matter that it's not in my Top Ten. What does matter is that it's in almost no one's Top Ten. That's the problem with speculating on cars. You buy a car and take ridiculous levels of care to keep it pristine, 20 years goes by, and you think you should double your money (which wouldn't even be a good return on investment); but, in reality, it's worth half what you paid, because cars are generally not a good investment, and you just plain chose the wrong car.

mrmustang

22nd September 2016, 15:13

Purchasing a car for Investing means you buy the best which is available.

It is my opinion, based on my own experiences, that more than 85% of buyers at Barrett Jackson, Mecum, and similar auction venues are not looking at anything as an investment, but as a toy to add to their garage, and/or collection/museum (private and public alike). Some because they like it, some because their son/daughter/grandkid/wife/girlfriend/etc like it. There is rarely a rhyme or reason, nor does there have to be at that level of wealth management.

It is not unheard of to see children as young as 8 with actual "live" bidder numbers around their necks as many of the higher end auction venues. Not copies of mom/dads/grandparents, but uniquely numbered bidder numbers. A number of years ago, I watched an 11 year old spend $40,000 (not including buyers fees) on a convertible because she thought it was "cute".

Bill S.

Rod Knock

22nd September 2016, 16:27

I guess $19,250.

I know it's the final year of the NA model, but the '97M was produced from December 1996 to February 1997 and the final NA's were still being produced in October 1997. So, I wouldn't pay a premium for a 1997 model over any prior model year, unless it was an '97R (47 made) or it was one of the final NA's, if not the last NA, to roll off the production line in October 1997.

The_Squid

22nd September 2016, 17:46

MSRP on this car was over $20k...

if seller gets $20k, this was not much of an investment considering storage for 20 years...

The biggest bragging point might be "zero depreciation over 20 years"!

tvrbob

22nd September 2016, 18:33

MSRP on this car was over $20k...

if seller gets $20k, this was not much of an investment considering storage for 20 years...

The biggest bragging point might be "zero depreciation over 20 years"!MSRP was right under $25,000, before options, according to the Miata.net Field Guide to M Editions. It lists the hardtop, ABS, and automatic transmission as options.

This particular car had the hardtop added at the dealership, so the cost would have been even more than whatever the factory option was. (Last hardtop factory option price I remember was $1,400, but it may have been higher by 1997.) All told, the list price of everything was likely well over $27,000.

1.6miata

22nd September 2016, 19:17

MSRP was right under $25,000, before options, according to the Miata.net Field Guide to M Editions. It lists the hardtop, ABS, and automatic transmission as options.

It seems to me like a waste to store, care, and worry about a car for so long and not enjoy it. I doubt the owner will get enough money to make up for the hassle.

tvrbob

22nd September 2016, 19:32

It seems to me like a waste to store, care, and worry about a car for so long and not enjoy it. I doubt the owner will get enough money to make up for the hassle.In addition to the above-mentioned cost and hassle, note that $27,000 in 1997 is over $41,000 today, when adjusted for inflation, and if you put $27,000 in the stock market in 1997, it would have been worth about $87,000 in 2013 (the latest year for the table I used).

autox25

22nd September 2016, 20:37

Bill I have to somewhat disagree. There are at least two types of collectors. Some Collectors buy what they want and hope to either make some money or not lose to much. Earlier this week a guy sold a 69 RR hemi car on BaT in the low 90's. But he bought the car about 8 years ago at Russo Steele for $116. I guess he enjoyed it and let it go even though he took a pretty substantial cash loss.

Other collectors are simply in it for a return on investment and treat the property as an asset. Be it art, cars, stocks, farm equipment, whatever. For instance currently there is a 1988 Porsche 959 on BaT. After day 1 it has 500 comments and a bid at $777,777. Now that's a car to lust after. So far it has been owned by 3 Japaneese corporations for their museums. But someone has been sneaking it out after museum hours and put 20k on the odometer.

sdcrjohn

23rd September 2016, 06:59

Scott,

I think your estimate is where the gavel will fall on this one. Although it certainly appears to be in pristine condition from the pics and description, the Marina Green is a polarizing color. I happen to like Marina green, but as others have said,, there are some other Miata Colors that are more appealing to a larger pool of buyers.

koa

23rd September 2016, 15:21

$16500.00 But I wouldn't be surprised if it goes much higher than $20k.

Seems like a cool car for a Mazda dealership to buy for their showroom. Wasn't there a dealership that had 91 BRG that was never registered? It would make a nice addition to his showroom. The two NA green years. Plus, I'm pretty sure it would be a tax deduction for them.

Rod Knock

23rd September 2016, 17:29

Outside the Miata Community you don't think there's a demand for a primo Miata? I'll disagree 100%. I'm not the only one in this world with multiple marques in their garage. In fact, one example, if you go the Porsche forum, you'll see a 31K mile RX7 FD for sale. It's quite common to see special cars of all marques listed for sale on various forums.

$9,000 for a 120-mile NA? Seriously? Marina Green is not $9,000 awful. If this seller doesn't buy it back from BJ at that amount, then that's just nuts.

scottns

23rd September 2016, 18:32

I realize my opinion is not popular but that's what I think. I'm happy to be proven wrong and hope it does well.

tvrbob

23rd September 2016, 19:06

I can't see it going for $9,000. This one went for almost $9,000, and it's a far lesser, though very nice, '97 M:

https://www.ebth.com/items/2393959-1997-mazda-miata-m-edition

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=590924

And Barrett-Jackson is far better known than Everything But the House. At least, I assume it is. I'd never heard of EBTH before that auction.

billythekid

24th September 2016, 12:28

Guesstimators please forward your $25 fee to ..........

I don't think I'm going out on a limb guessing nobody trusted you enough to send you cash.

Adelman's got a lot of balls posting about his Miata on this Forum and getting it listed by one of the most prestigious auction companies in the world. it is nice to have forum members with a thick enough skin to have a thread last 7 years. Not to mention the honesty he had in describing his Miata.

back to the guessing, here is my score keeping so far:

tvrbob

24th September 2016, 15:19

I don't think I'm going out on a limb guessing nobody trusted you enough to send you cash.

back to the guessing, here is my score keeping so far:

Me 20k
Scott's 9k
TVRBob 10 to30k but unlikely more than $9k
Singy14. 13.5k
Red knock 13,501 (don't forget to spade/neuter your pets....)
Sharpie 19,500
MRm no guess
The squid no guess
Autox25 no guess
KOA 16500tvrbob: No guess. It wouldn't surprise me if it were $10K or $30K, or anywhere between. In my later post, I meant that it's unlikely to be $9K or less, not unlikely to be more than $9K.

cduplain

24th September 2016, 19:30

$20,500

71Bacon

24th September 2016, 19:35

I'm going to say $22,800. Two people who don't "know better" about M editions or Miata colors or whatever are going to find this car a good deal for a brand new classic, and be drawn to the glitter green paint and chromed wheels.

autox25

24th September 2016, 20:31

Kid I never intended for the kitty to be in my possession. Too much hassle. But come on what Miata guy is going to part with $25? That's a tank of gas. It's a nice thought but can't beat free huh.

I don't guess publicly because it makes one look stupid when wrong. Plenty here willing to carry that torch though. Soon we will see who the expert is and who just thinks they are. Can't wait to finally see the results. Like shooting fish in a barrel. So keep those seat of the pants guesses rolling in. Please remove me from your list.

underthetire

24th September 2016, 20:39

I'm guessing 18,.500.

SmokeyAndTheBandit

25th September 2016, 23:02

18,235

Amati

27th September 2016, 21:44

Talking about the Marina Green color and after living with it for a good many years one comes to find that it shows differently with a black convertible top and black wheels.
A car so equipped looks like a BRG and many people have mistaken mine for a plain BRG.
It looks best with the hardtop on, lowered and with big black Enkeis. Debadged, so people ask what kind of car it is. This one will soon be a full time track car.

The Merlot is an altogether different story. With the hardtop and the OEM BBS wheels it is real eye candy and gets constantly complimented. This one looses a lot of its looks without the hardtop, more so than the '97. Maybe a lighter hue of burgundy cloth top would be the way to go on this one.

sdcrjohn

1st October 2016, 09:04

This is coming up next week on BJ auction, correct?
Anyone know the timeline?

billythekid

1st October 2016, 11:37

The best I can tell this one will roll across the block on Saturday October 15. The auction starts at 11am and it looks like it will be about the 5th to 7th car to roll across that day. IT looks like the "Waynes's World" AMC Pacer will be the following car.

Also being auctioned off that day will be Firebirds VIN 1 and 2. These were restored on fast and loud "reality" show a few years ago. One of them is a hard top, the other is a convertible. According to the show, they were a
Barn find discovery in Conniticut, in need of full restoration. IIRC, Gas Monkey, Richard Rollings said he paid about $70k for them and a Pontiac museum commissioned a full concours restoration at about $300k a piece...

Good luck Adelman. I will update the m.net predictions before the auction. It will be interesting to see which m.netters are too chicken to make a prediction.

autox25

1st October 2016, 22:08

Kid change prediction to Bid. Predictions are a poor mans past time.

cduplain

2nd October 2016, 08:30

Kid change prediction to Bid. Predictions are a poor mans past time.

First, your logic is faulty. Predictions are not a poor man's pastime. Rich and poor people alike make predictions on everything from the weather, to sporting events, to presidential elections, to what card they are going to be dealt next. If you really believe that predictions are for poor men (and you are not a poor man), they you better think twice before you talk about who is going to win the next big game.

Second, Miata's are a poor man's sports car, and they are fun as hell. Just because something is for poor men doesn't mean that it's not fun. In fact, it looks like you own several Miatas, which means that you are participating quite enthusiastically in a poor man pastime. So, if you participate in one poor man pastime, why would you not participate in another?

Finally, RELAX. These predictions are being made in good fun.

sdcrjohn

2nd October 2016, 09:19

First, your logic is faulty....

Finally, RELAX. These predictions are being made in good fun.

autox25

2nd October 2016, 10:15

:sad:First, your logic is faulty. Predictions are not a poor man's pastime. Rich and poor people alike make predictions on everything from the weather, to sporting events, to presidential elections, to what card they are going to be dealt next. If you really believe that predictions are for poor men (and you are not a poor man), they you better think twice before you talk about who is going to win the next big game.

Finally, RELAX. These predictions are being made in good fun.

I don't have time to worry about the outcome of any game. It's just a game and not important in life. I don't predict the weather either. I leave that to the weather babe with the Dopler radar on the nightly news. Do I own a few miatas? Sure they are each a specific tool for a very specific job. Be it road racing, another for autocross and yet another as a low mileage show car. But I also have a fully restored muscle car, street/race car and others. The Miatas have been a novelty recently but it's time to thin the heard a bit and maybe move onto to new experiences.

If making predictions kills time for you please be my guest. As mentioned it's a poor mans past time. Enjoy!

ddog

4th October 2016, 00:37

Kid change prediction to Bid. Predictions are a poor mans past time.

Unless the people guessing (predicting) the final selling price are buyers and are bidding those amounts on the car in question, the prices aren't bids, they are predictions. They are predicting the outcome of the bidding.

If you participate in any discussion over a vehicle value in this forum (PDD) you are simply predicting whether a car will or will not sell for the stated asking price. Thus the forum should be renamed Predictions and Dealer Discussion...

So, How many in the list are attending the BJ auction and plan on bidding up to your predicted amount?

I am not bidding on the car , but I predict that if an NB SE on BAT with more miles than this car can bring north of $17K, (some of those predictions were also 9K max) I think the OP's car should do at least as well. How many brand new 1997 cars are out there on the market, much less convertibles, much less M Edition Miatas? Question is whether BJ attracts Miata enthusiasts Like BaT has. OP should look into profiling the vehicle on BaT with a link to the BJ auction listing. I have seen other vehicles profiled on BaT with pictures that were for sale at other places.

I predict $23,700.

koa

4th October 2016, 02:59

So, How many in the list are attending the BJ auction and plan on bidding up to your predicted amount?

I can't call in my bid from my Gulfstream G650? I have to be there? Damn, need to change my Paris dinner reservations.

autox25

4th October 2016, 08:22

Have your man servant Bid to Win on your behalf. Just pre register. Enjoy your dinner.

mrmustang

4th October 2016, 09:15

So, How many in the list are attending the BJ auction

I'm registered, but not certain I'll be going due to potential family obligations :cool:

Vince3

4th October 2016, 15:57

My wild guess is the final gavel will see a bid price of $19,500 as she's rolled off the stage. Of course that guess does not include the auction fees that are tacked on top of the winning bid.

With a few serous deep-pocket bidders and a few strategic :) shill bidders it could conceivably go a lot higher but put me down at $19,500.

adelman

5th October 2016, 11:08

Sorry for the slow response, but I haven't had time to visit the forum in a while.

Yes, the car is no reserve. No, I will not have a shill present. Actually, I'll be in Mexico on a dive boat during the auction and probably won't heard of the results for a few days afterwards. The car will definitely be at the auction, the paperwork is all done, and the transporter comes for it this afternoon.

We're simply bored with the car and want the storage space for something else. I've decided to part with it for what it is worth. The B/J auction with no reserve is the simplest way of determining that. I'm well aware of the risks of a no reserve auction.

Bob_MX5

5th October 2016, 12:31

Sorry for the slow response, but I haven't had time to visit the forum in a while....
We're simply bored with the car and want the storage space for something else. I've decided to part with it for what it is worth. The B/J auction with no reserve is the simplest way of determining that. I'm well aware of the risks of a no reserve auction.

Seems like the least effective way to get what it's worth...BJ that is. Ebay or BaT would have been better options IMHO, with or without a reserve. But your car your decision. I hope it does well.

Edit: on second thought, not the least effective. If it sells for $1.00 or $1M, BJ effectively determined its value in that snapsbot in time.

autox25

5th October 2016, 13:46

tvrbob

5th October 2016, 17:44

BJ seems to be a great opportunity for a car of this caliber. Will be interesting to see how it does and maybe will open the doors for other miatas in the future. I'm going to have to strongly disagree with eBay auction on this. Even BaT has proven itself yet. Too many comments that at times have nothing to do with the car. It's like this area of Mnet with an auction going on in the background. Absolute train wreck. The million dollar Porsche a couple of weeks ago had 1000 comments! Absolute Yackathon.You have 12 posts in this thread. (As do I, though mine are over an almost 7-year period. You can read my first prescient post here (http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=4252152&postcount=31).) If every member of Miata.net yacked as much as you, this thread would have over 1.2 million posts. It's nice to finally see that you are a self-acknowledged absolute train wreck.

autox25

5th October 2016, 22:10

Bob with 4500 posts to your credit kind of the kettle calling the pot black no? Your mistaken it's time for you to board the cho-cho my friend.

Shouldn't you be out in the garage trying to keep the rust from eating up that TVR instead of wasting time here and adding nothing constructive? I read your first post on this subject. After being on the site for 6 months and maybe what 100 posts you felt you had any real knowledge of the value of this car? You crack me up. Had you even owned a Miata back then? I see a TVR and an MX-6. Sounds like no Miatas in the fold. Oh yeah that $18k Silverstone just got away from you. Sure it did.

koa

5th October 2016, 22:26

If someone starts a post here with "I don't have time..." IMHO They kind of forfeit the not having time argument. ;)

autox25

5th October 2016, 22:43

Instead of posting just a small part of a statement to make it a sound bite for your purpose try posting the entire sentence. Then add your faulty commentary. By the way are you pre-registered and is your butler bidding for you? Good luck.

koa

5th October 2016, 23:49

:sad:

If making predictions kills time for you please be my guest. As mentioned it's a poor mans past time. Enjoy!

Have your man servant Bid to Win on your behalf. Just pre register. Enjoy your dinner.

Here you go. You might choose not to spend time doing something, but if you're taking the time to post on an internet car forum it's not because you don't have time. I see a difference. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm ok with that. ;)

I'll send my manservant, my butler flies with me and the wine. :D

sdcrjohn

6th October 2016, 13:25

So, getting back to the car itself, it obviously will sell.

I wonder if this car appeals more to a collector type, who, like the original owner will semi mothball it.

On the other hand, for someone looking for a near new time capsule NA Miata to drive and put into regular use, it could be an excellent opportunity.

Both are distinctly different types of buyer, but both, will have to look past color, and what some believe are less than desirable wheels.

koa

10th October 2016, 12:00

Is anyone rethinking their prediction after the 1990 w/21 miles sold for $22,250 without commission?

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=622308

Cincycaddy

10th October 2016, 12:22

Will be interesting to see. The '97 M is the better car - but that green vs the smurf blue. I dunno. If only the 97M was BRG. I still can't belive the Smurf sold for that much. Especially with the paint issues and undercarriage rust.

jch

10th October 2016, 12:22

$23,250

Rod Knock

10th October 2016, 12:37

Is anyone rethinking their prediction after the 1990 w/21 miles sold for $22,250 without commission?

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=622308

tvrbob

10th October 2016, 12:43

Nope, not at all. The Smurf is the original, the NA6 is a very popular color. That '97 M green IMO just doesn't appeal to a wide audience. And the '97M being a better car is relative. I'd argue that the basic '90 w/o all those fancy schmancy doo-dad options is preferable, at least to me.
Maybe. Out of these two particular cars, I'd much rather have the M. If the condition of the cars were at all similar, it would be a closer call.

Cincycaddy

10th October 2016, 14:00

Hmm - I dunno. I'll admit I've never driven an NA8. But torsen, better brakes, larger motor, more bracing, etc - makes it the better Miata. Less 'pure' sure.

billythekid

10th October 2016, 14:18

If someone starts a post here with "I don't have time..." IMHO They kind of forfeit the not having time argument. ;)

Agreed 100%

If it were not for double standards ... some people would have no standards at all...

Rod Knock

10th October 2016, 14:20

Hmm - I dunno. I'll admit I've never driven an NA8. But torsen, better brakes, larger motor, more bracing, etc - makes it the better Miata. Less 'pure' sure.

I'm just speculating, but the person who paid $25,000 +/- for the Smurf isn't all that interested in better brakes, larger engine, torsen, bracing, etc. They won't be street or track racing their Smurf and I don't expect the person who buys the '97M will either.

IMO, these ultra low mileage NA's are/will be just Sunday drivers or will be stuck in a garage somewhere as a collectible. And that would describe me. If I want, bigger brakes, larger engine, etc., then I'll take out my alloy 427 Cobra replica. :)

billythekid

10th October 2016, 14:33

Is anyone rethinking their prediction after the 1990 w/21 miles sold for $22,250 without commission?

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=622308

Yes, it's a game changer. I don't know of any other 10 year old Miatas selling for over $20k throw in the fact the smurf had some dings and rust. The smurf broke the glass ceiling.

I'm increasing my guesstimate to $25k.

koa

10th October 2016, 17:57

I can see that logic. Although 97M was a more unique rarer color and the last year of the NA M series.

I recall another Smurf that was bought and stored right away when the owner was transferred overseas. Thought it was a 1990, in California and he but a plywood box around it. Don't think it was ever for sale, just discussed. I searched but couldn't find the thread.

I'm letting my manservant know I'm doubling my estimate/bid to $33,000. ;)

tvrbob

10th October 2016, 18:53

I can see that logic. Although 97M was a more unique rarer color and the last year of the NA M series.

I'm letting my manservant know I'm doubling my estimate/bid to $33,000. ;)
I recall that he built a whole walled-off room to store the car. I'll find the thread. It was active relatively recently. When I first saw this car, I wondered if it were the same one. Then when I saw the location, I knew that it wasn't.

Here it is:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=550692

800 miles.

autox25

10th October 2016, 21:58

If a dealer was to pick up this M for his showroom display the color really doesn't matter. Let a lighting engineer come up with the correct fixtures and photo metrics to make the color pop. In certain lighting this color does look good. I suspect it is in nicer condition than the smurf.

Vince3

10th October 2016, 22:09

I too would suspect this 97M is in nicer condition than the recent 21-mile $26,000 Smurf. That car did have some wear and tear issues from improper neglected storage.

I think in some perverse way the buyer of that $26,000 Smurf liked the "story" of the car being bought new and basically just parked on day 1 and forgotten about. It would be interesting to know more of the story of that car (?) and it's seller and it's recent buyer.

This 97M has apparently been driven and exercised regularly a bit over the years and care taken to keep it running and looking good. Not sure if this will help or not on the coming auction pricing?

I wonder if this 97M still has the original window sticker glued on the passenger window??:) :) :)

scottns

11th October 2016, 12:16

The best I can tell this one will roll across the block on Saturday October 15. The auction starts at 11am and it looks like it will be about the 5th to 7th car to roll across that day.

According to the web site it will be the 4th car in line (lot 607) Saturday morning.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Docket/LasVegas-2016/Collector-Cars/532d522d-9e1c-4d6c-943a-dbb748bd5cfe/10-15-2016/10-15-2016

koa

11th October 2016, 13:18

I wonder if this 97M still has the original window sticker glued on the passenger window??:) :) :)

From post #7...

"The window sticker had been damaged by running the window up and down, and although the original sticker is still on the car, our dealer got Mazda to issue a replacement sticker which is still in an envelope." ;)

Vince3

11th October 2016, 13:21

From post #7...

Interesting. Thanks.

adelman

12th October 2016, 02:01

From post #7...

The window sticker on the car as it goes to auction is a COPY of the reissued replacement sticker that Mazda produced in 1997. The original reissued sticker is in an envelope in the trunk.

Cincycaddy

12th October 2016, 06:30

Something to keep in mind is that this 97M has 6 times the mileage of the 90 Smurf that just sold.

autox25

12th October 2016, 08:08

Might have 6x's the mileage but should be spectacular detail wise on the underside and engine compartment simply because of its location. The 112k mile Silverstone was ex southern cal/SE Texas as is my 60k STO from Los Angeles/Vegas. Both had/have incredibly clean undercarriages. The smurf was not as nice as one would think a 25 mile car should be. Midwest humidity took its toll. Add the superficial paint and body damage to the smurf and I feel this 97 may be a much better car. But I haven't seen it in person so speculating based on experience.

billythekid

12th October 2016, 09:43

If you are sent into uncontrolable hissy fits by reading what other post about estimating what the highest bid will be, stop reading this post now.

back to the guessing, here is my score keeping so far:

Me 20k, increases to $25k after the smurf auction
Scott's 9k
TVRBob 10 to30k but unlikely less than $9k
Singy14. 13.5k
Red knock 13,501 (don't forget to spade/neuter your pets....)
Sharpie 19,500
MRm no guess
The squid no guess
Autox25 no guess
KOA 16500 increased to $33k after the smurf auction
CduplIn 20,500
71bacon 22,800
Underthewire 18500
Smokeyandthebandit. 18,235
Ddog. 23,700
Vince3. 19,500
Jch 23,250

boatshoozes

12th October 2016, 11:15

Red knock 13,501 (don't forget to spade/neuter your pets....)

Spade your pets?! :eek:

BetweenMiatas

12th October 2016, 11:55

I wanted to, yesterday, after she dug up my irises, but I resisted.

Lobster70

12th October 2016, 12:11

Put me down for a guess of 17,500.

That said, the "unused original pen and keychain boxed set" and other things like the hardtop rack and spare (apparently Miata steel) wheels, make me wonder if I'm low. We'll see!

Rod Knock

12th October 2016, 12:31

Red knock 13,501 (don't forget to spade/neuter your pets....)

That remark went WAY over my head.

tvrbob

12th October 2016, 13:41

That remark went WAY over my head.
It's a Price is Right Bob Barker reference.

Rod Knock

12th October 2016, 13:50

It's a Price is Right Bob Barker reference.

Cool. I didn't get watch much day time TV. Now, the next question is, how does that remark pertain to me? :confused:

BetweenMiatas

12th October 2016, 13:55

It doesn't. It pertains to Red Knock, who you may not know because he doesn't post here much. :p

Rod Knock

12th October 2016, 14:09

That's a pretty darn good guess. If this were the "Price Is Right", then I'd say $13,501.

Duh. My apologies. :O

I suppose I never watched the end of the show. :rofl::bang:

Need more coffee.

MrSunburst

12th October 2016, 16:46

$ 24,500

stiglet

15th October 2016, 03:30

$26,250

greenmonster1918

15th October 2016, 05:22

I am going to say 23,000

More speculation what is the guy going to look like, my guess 5'9 with gray hair!!!!!! : )

ksd

15th October 2016, 06:49

I think the Smurf sale will turn out to be an aberration.

greenmonster1918

15th October 2016, 08:00

I think the Smurf sale will turn out to be an aberration.

Well you could be rite but I have sold my fair share of Miata's and one thing I have learned it only takes one Butt to make the deal. I am convinced that one person is out there this morning. My guess a Mazda Dealer

scottns

15th October 2016, 08:55

Actually you need 2 butts to bid against each other. If only 1 guy bids then it's going cheap.

billythekid

15th October 2016, 13:31

If you are sent into uncontrolable hissy fits by reading what other post about estimating what the highest bid will be, stop reading this post now.

back to the guessing, here is my score keeping so far:

Me 20k, increases to $25k after the smurf auction
Scott's 9k
TVRBob 10 to30k but unlikely less than $9k
Singy14. 13.5k
ROd knock 13,501 (don't forget to spade/neuter your pets....)
Sharpie 19,500
MRm no guess
The squid no guess
Autox25 no guess
KOA 16500 increased to $33k after the smurf auction
CduplIn 20,500
71bacon 22,800
Underthewire 18500
Smokeyandthebandit. 18,235
Ddog. 23,700
Vince3. 19,500
Jch 23,250
Lobster70 17,500
Mr Sunburst 24,500
Stiglet. 26,250
Green monster 23,000

scottns

15th October 2016, 14:08

23000 wins it

MX5/XJ6

15th October 2016, 14:18

Cannot agree with you there, although color is always subjective. But I love "most" green vehicles, and the Marina Green is a close 2nd (for me) to BRG.

Crystal Blue, we agree on. I'm not sure I could buy one of those at half price. And I know blue cars LOL

https://photos.smugmug.com/2017-Mustang-GT/i-LP6WR6P/0/XL/1-P1010816-XL.jpg

MX5/XJ6

15th October 2016, 14:21

23000 wins it

Awesome. I think it deserves a price close to what it cost new. It was a terrible investment, but certainly fun to own for 2 decades. If it had gone for 9 Grand I would be crying in my beer. Or rather, bloody mary :)

koa

15th October 2016, 14:40

Missed the live feed on their website by one car. I'm recording the show but it doesn't air here for another 1 1/2 hours. Congrats Green Monster!

autox25

15th October 2016, 14:40

Greenmonster wins with Bacon and JCH oh so close. The rest...well....

chacend

15th October 2016, 15:19

Greenmonster wins with Bacon and JCH oh so close. The rest...well....

Do we know if this is the first, stock Miata to go for more than (or right on) it's original sticker price?

Vince3

15th October 2016, 15:24

Do we know if this is the first, stock Miata to go for more than (or right on) it's original sticker price?

Last week the 21-mile 1990 Mariner Blue sold at auction for $26,000-$27,000 (?) all inclusive price of the buyers fees and taxes.

This one was at $23,000 plus fees.

MX5/XJ6

15th October 2016, 15:43

This one was at $23,000 plus fees.

So under the 1997 cost when new, when the HT is figured in-

chacend

15th October 2016, 15:49

Last week the 21-mile 1990 Mariner Blue sold at auction for $26,000-$27,000 (?) all inclusive price of the buyers fees and taxes.

This one was at $23,000 plus fees.

I didn't watch it live but Barrett-Jackson website shows that this one sold for $25,300. That must include the fees.

BetweenMiatas

15th October 2016, 16:14

Last week the 21-mile 1990 Mariner Blue sold at auction for $26,000-$27,000 (?) all inclusive price of the buyers fees and taxes.

This one was at $23,000 plus fees.

The cost of the Mariner was between $24K and $25K after buyer's fee. The sticker was $16,393, with a $395 "dealer get ready" fee tacked on.

koa

15th October 2016, 16:15

The TV show starts 2 hours in so missed it there too.

Rod Knock

15th October 2016, 16:52

Cannot agree with you there, although color is always subjective. But I love "most" green vehicles, and the Marina Green is a close 2nd (for me) to BRG.

Crystal Blue, we agree on. I'm not sure I could buy one of those at half price. And I know blue cars LOL

We can agree on the color of your Mustang too. Love it! In the Porsche-owning world that color is called Riviera or Mexico Blue and it's highly sought after with buyers paying huge premiums for it.

adelman

15th October 2016, 17:11

I didn't watch it live but Barrett-Jackson website shows that this one sold for $25,300. That must include the fees.

The sellers fee was an 8% commission. We're happy with the sales price. (We didn't pay sticker for it in 1997). Suppose you could call it a "bad investment" by some metrics, but it has been fun to own. I'm glad it has moved on to a new home.

Ken

stiglet

15th October 2016, 17:29

We're happy with the sales price.
Ken

Glad to hear it. :thumbs: That was the biggest question in my mind.

tvrbob

16th October 2016, 13:15

Do we know if this is the first, stock Miata to go for more than (or right on) it's original sticker price?
As mentioned above, the bid price is far less than sticker. With fees, it's approaching sticker price as it came from the factory. With the hardtop added to sticker, the bid price with fees is not really even that close.

autox25

16th October 2016, 14:23

You can crunch the numbers all you want. What's important is this car came close to its original MSRP which makes it one of the highest public transactions on a 20 year old Miata. Hopefully some non Miata collectors took notice and will be looking into why a Miata like this went for that kind of money and decide to seek out a Miata for their collection. That will only further the hobby. I'm glad that this car was accepted and did well at this venue. Too bad it didn't make TV coverage as someone noted. Hopefully the next one does.

greenmonster1918

16th October 2016, 20:35

I saw it live all though when they broke in it was going down the ramp. I wish they could have spent more time on my favorite car but let's face the facts NA MIATA FANS HAVE HAD TO GREAT SALES THIS MONTH.

GregND

16th October 2016, 21:09

They covered it during the 10pm segment, which showed cars from earlier.

autox25

17th October 2016, 08:24

Wish I had known. Did it look like there were multiple bidders early on? At what number did it turn into just 2 vying to take it home? Bidders in the audience or just phone bidders?

greenmonster1918

17th October 2016, 10:24

It was on for I would say 30 sec and it was done. Unless someone has more footage that's all I saw.

tvrbob

17th October 2016, 11:42

Wish I had known. Did it look like there were multiple bidders early on? At what number did it turn into just 2 vying to take it home? Bidders in the audience or just phone bidders?Judging by the reported total price, the bidder must have been present.

tvrbob

17th October 2016, 11:43

greenmonster1918

17th October 2016, 11:56

Judging by the reported total price, it appears that the winning bidder was present.

He was appeared to be there on the runway

koa

26th October 2016, 00:59

I missed the live broadcast for the Miata. There might not have been a live version for this car but I recorded every B-J auction repeat episode and finally got it today. It went very fast and wasn't on screen very long. Here's the guy (with sunglasses) who bought it...

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w130/koa_/BFED2F55-2B19-4623-8A92-77A0A384C0A0_zpsguep7pez.jpg (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/koa_/media/BFED2F55-2B19-4623-8A92-77A0A384C0A0_zpsguep7pez.jpg.html)

autox25

26th October 2016, 09:34

Yes the episode was repeated yesterday morning on Velocity. And that is the guy who won. But regretfully the $24000 paid for this time capsul Miata was $10k short of the 70's AMC Pacer which followed it. Party on Garth.

Frank Reiss

26th October 2016, 14:36

What you have is a new 1st generation car, an opportunity for someone, someone who doesn't want an NC, to buy a new old car for new new car money. An interesting proposition, but not farfetched.

Sorry, but I wanted to bring what I said in 2009 (post #5) to the current market, and gloat a bit. I should be doing this for a living. ;)

tvrbob

26th October 2016, 15:50

Sorry, but I wanted to bring what I said in 2009 (post #5) to the current market, and gloat a bit. I should be doing this for a living. ;)
Perfect. If I want to sell a car in 7 years, I'll contact you now.

Cincycaddy

26th October 2016, 16:27

Perfect. If I want to sell a car in 7 years, I'll contact you now.
This.

Frank Reiss

27th October 2016, 09:05

Perfect. If I want to sell a car in 7 years, I'll contact you now.

Not interested, thank you.

Frank Reiss

27th October 2016, 09:06

This.

Nor you!

ddog

29th October 2016, 20:41

I predict $23,700.

Sorry, but I wanted to bring what I said in 2016 (post #161) just 11 days before the auction regarding the current market and gloat a bit. I should be doing this for a living......:eek:

greenmonster1918

29th October 2016, 23:20

Sorry, but I wanted to bring what I said in 2016 (post #161) just 11 days before the auction regarding the current market and gloat a bit. I should be doing this for a living......:eek:

Greenmonster wins with Bacon and JCH oh so close. The rest...well....

Sharpie

30th October 2016, 13:48

Bought by a dealer trying to flip it.

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/5831363069.html

Crazy.

greenmonster1918

30th October 2016, 15:09

I didn't see that coming:thumbs:

Lestat

30th October 2016, 15:20

Trying to flip it - on the Sacramento Craigslist?????? As Sharpie says.......... Mundo Bizarro.

tvrbob

30th October 2016, 15:52

I'll give him $18K, shipped to Massachusetts.

Remember the 3,300 mile Silverstone that was listed for $17,995 (I think) and sold in a day or two? It is now listed by another dealer for $32,250. Good luck with that!

ksd

30th October 2016, 15:56

I didn't see that coming:thumbs:

Me, neither. But who knows? Maybe he will find a buyer. After all, it's still cheaper than buying a new ND.

Sent from my iPhone using MX5 Miata.net (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=74348)

tvrbob

30th October 2016, 16:08

Me, neither. But who knows? Maybe he will find a buyer. After all, it's still cheaper than buying a new ND.

Sent from my iPhone using MX5 Miata.net (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=74348)
Still cheaper than buying some ND's. For less than $25K, you can get a Sport. At this point, the only ND's going for more than $30K are Brembo/BBS Clubs and maybe automatic GT's to people who don't know how to negotiate.

I am a bit surprised that this dealer doesn't have the '97 M priced even higher, though.

greenmonster1918

30th October 2016, 17:21

Me, neither. But who knows? Maybe he will find a buyer. After all, it's still cheaper than buying a new ND.

Sent from my iPhone using MX5 Miata.net (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=74348)

Who knows maybe it will go to someones Private collection But you can by a lot of nice cars for 30,000

Vince3

30th October 2016, 17:33

I'll give him $18K, shipped to Massachusetts.

Remember the 3,300 mile Silverstone that was listed for $17,995 (I think) and sold in a day or two? It is now listed by another dealer for $32,250. Good luck with that!

"Flippers Gone Wild"...LOL. :)

ksd

30th October 2016, 19:13

Still cheaper than buying some ND's. For less than $25K, you can get a Sport. At this point, the only ND's going for more than $30K are Brembo/BBS Clubs and maybe automatic GT's to people who don't know how to negotiate.

I am a bit surprised that this dealer doesn't have the '97 M priced even higher, though.

No kidding? I thought they were more than that. $25k for a ND actually sounds pretty reasonable.

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