lawguy9801 : 12/2/2024 11:52 pm
Sy's predraft writeup below. 87 grade, i.e. Pro Bowl projection. This isn't meant to be a criticism of Sy as pretty much everyone had him at this level.
But what the actual fuck? Has there ever been a bigger OL draft bust? Even Tony Mandarich, who is synonymous with OL draft busts, ended up as a serviceable starter for a few years (but obviously nowhere near where he was projected).
And what does it say about the Giants draft evaluators that Neal and Ereck Flowers have been top OL picks in the past decade?
I realize that Sy identified some shortcomings, but holy cow. Who saw this as a possibility? Can anyone produce a time-stamped BBI post questioning this pick?
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| 1: Evan Neal – Alabama – 6’7/337 Grade: 87 Summary: Junior entry from Okeechobee, Florida. Three-year starter at three different positions (LG, RT, LT). A 2019 Freshman All American that ended his career as a 2nd Team All American and 1st Team All SEC honoree. Neal, a team captain, is lauded by both the on-field coaches and support staff inside the walls. His attention to detail, intelligence, and work ethic have helped him deliver on his 5-star recruit profile out of high school. The fact he started right away as a true freshman for Nick Saban along the offensive line, a rarity, and progressed each season of his 3-year career while playing 3 different positions speaks volumes about his mental game. The obvious with Neal is the elite physical tools. His size is second to none, his power comes easy and natural, and the explosion within his blocking can put him in a rare tier of offensive line prospects. He did struggle with consistency throughout his career, as he showed low body awareness in several situations. He often oversets, leading to balance and control issues. Defenders were able to shake him off too many times. Neal’s upside is as high as it gets but the constant new-position he dealt with every year may have thrown off some important development. That versatility may help his outlook to some teams but once he is drafted, his true value will come when he settles into a position. Neal can eventually be one of the best linemen in the game. *Prior to the start of the year, I had nearly no-doubt Neal was going to finish in the 90+ tier. But this is where you have to toss pre-conceived notions out the window when watching the tape. The truth is, Neal did not take a step forward. There are shortcomings within his skill set that arose weekly. The positive? These are all very correctable issues, and we see them corrected all the time. He has some of the same issues that Tristan Wirfs did coming out of Iowa in 2020. Wirfs was my OT1 in that class with a similar grade and is now an All-Pro. Neal can get on that path just as quickly, but I think he needs to settle into a position and remain there for a couple years. That hasn’t been the case since he was a high schooler. NYG would be an ideal destination for him. Insert him into the RT spot week 1 and they could have a top tier OT pair within a year or two. I would be excited to get this kid in blue. |
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Too big and lumbering in how he carried his weight. Also on the ground a lot - even in college. I was skeptical of the pick but was comforted by all the rave scouting reviews. Oh well..
I will preface what I am about to say that Neal may still turn his career around (getting more and more unlikely).
Neal is another example that even the pro evaluators don't really know anything. Teams are quickly graded for their drafts after the draft is over. Those drafts are 'on paper' drafts. Getting too caught up in immediate draft results (whether we feel our team did well or did poorly) is extremely short-sighted.
In comment 16703433 allstarjim said:
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| On Neal for his entire career. It should be noted that Micah Parsons is one of the best edge guys in the league and will make a lot of good tackles look bad. |
In the first Dallas game, there is a play where Parsons zooms past Aaron Thomas to pressure Jones. Thomas is left pancaked on the field, having totally whiffed in his attempt to block Parsons.
In comment 16703449 Jerry in_DC said:
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| There are busts in the draft, even this high. It happens. But the magnitude of his bust is just insane. Everyone had him as a good prospect with a decent floor. Even like a 10th percentile outcome would've been decent run blocker/below average pass blocker. In reality, the guy is not even an NFL player. He's so bad. I know he didn't do one of the workouts blah blah. He had many years of games against the best competition in college football. There was plenty of sample here. And its not just like he's bad or disappointing. The guy can't play at all. My guess is that there is some injury and/or psychological issue happening. But we'll probably never know. As it stands, it's one of the bigger deltas between expectation and reality that we've seen in the league at this position. |
This.
In comment 16703448 UberAlias said:
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| The moment he was drafted by the New York Giants. That’s all I got. |
+1. If the GIants had drafted Mahomes he would probably be the Raiders backup right now.
trying him at OG when every other OL other than Thomas gets cross-trained is frustrating. And it's probably too late now.
to the point where I would have needed to have been on the team the last few years to even give a decent guess.
Neal wasn't just a good prospect, he was a great one. Dallas, who's fantastic at drafting OL, had him as number 1 on their board. Dozens of highly respected analysts had him as OT one as well and so did most of this board.
Not that there weren't flaws in his tape, but he put up very good tape for multiple years against the best competition in the country.
So what went wrong? Again, this is a situation where I would have needed to been there and around him to even guess. It could have been injuries piling up, it could have been crappy coaching, it could have been his confidence getting killed.
Have been better than anyone at drafting the last 10-12
Years had him as the #1 player on their board.
In comment 16703483 logman said:
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| trying him at OG when every other OL other than Thomas gets cross-trained is frustrating. And it's probably too late now. |
Why would it be too late? They have another year with him unless he is cut or is traded.
In comment 16703489 section125 said:
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| In comment 16703483 logman said: Quote: trying him at OG when every other OL other than Thomas gets cross-trained is frustrating. And it's probably too late now. Why would it be too late? They have another year with him unless he is cut or is traded. |
Yeah, I wasn't clear. I mean too late here with the Giants. I think he could benefit from a change of scenery. Something said about far too many players over the last decade.
admittedly, I let this influence me.
facebook link
https://fb.watch/weNzaFUmNe/
These things get hidden at places like Bama because the overall talent is so high on the players around you.
It was pretty obvious when he hit the field as a rookie we got played by his agent and team. Lots of explosive vertical stuff, but doesn't show him moving laterally at all. Then we had to deal with all the excuse making for him and needing to learn technique. He has poor balance because he has slow feet. No technique in world can fix that.
Andrew Thomas always had the tools and he got better as his rookie year went on, the doubling down on bad players has been endemic here.
Granted a lot of heavyweight wrestlers are just big but there are those, especially at the major college programs, that have athletic ability and good balance/movement skills. Neal certainly doesn't move like a wrestler.
And yeah, I used to wrestle myself.
once he gets beat, he loses it. He can ovrpower lesser foes but when a top player lines up, usually bad things happen.
Hope they move him to OG next year instead of fucking coddling him.
But knowing the Giants they will let him stay and fail at OT
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/3/2024 9:12 am : link
he will sign elsewhere and become a OG there.
That’s it time to move on from him. In fact I believe both top picks in this draft were mistakes. Just my opinion.
and suspect his confidence is shot at tackle. As bw posted, Bama players are often peaking in school and then wind up lower ceiling players in the NFL.
now that he is set for life financially . Maybe he just wanted the money .
I simply cannot believe based on what he’s shown, he wouldn’t be better at G.
In comment 16703518 ATL_Giants said:
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| admittedly, I let this influence me. facebook link |
That’s neat but his problem is agility which isn’t going to show up there. He changes direction like an air craft carrier.
Did Schoen talk to Saban??
I actually don’t think he is guard material either.
Man was I wrong about Neal. Ranks right up there with my awful assessment of Josh Rosen.
No wonder this kid did not want to participate at the combine
He would have been exposed!!!
in the NFL. It's pretty obvious.
The balance issue was mentioned in the draft report, but avoiding the combine probably helped him mask it to protect his draft stock.
Guard is his only way of salvaging his NFL career.
...with poor focus on player development.
Also my guess is he was pampered in Alabama (a lot of these bigtime SEC guys seem to be, honestly) and didn't take to what little coaching they offered.
And now his confidence is shot.
The Eagles have taken Mekhi Becton and turned him into a starting OG on their well piled machine of an OL.
The last chance saloon for Neal will be next year. The Giants will decline his fifth year option. He's putting on tape what he can at RT now and then next year--if they're smart will move him to Guard on the left side. Runyan is better on the right side anyway. Play Neal at LG and have him compete with a mid-tier FA or an early to mid-round draft pick there. His chances are running out. If a team is silly enough to want to trade for him, then that would be deuces too.
I often wonder what Neal would look like in Philly with Stoutland
Chris684 : 12/3/2024 10:24 am : link
Just out of curiosity alone I'd probably be willing to see it.
Are just too slow. People saw Neal's size and video of his box jump and automatically said "great athlete". If Neal gets too tee iff and latch on too a guy, he competes with the best if them. Once he has to redirect or readjust it's over for him.
Thats why i don't like the Wirfs conp in there. Yes, Wirfs was known as a powerful guy coming out if Iowa, but he was also noted as being extremely nimble on his feet. Neal always was a bit of a plodder. The selling point of Neal was "If he struggles at Tackle, he has Guard flexibility". It's time to test that theory.
then they can fully write him off at end of season if he fails there.
seeing becton play guard... flowers for a few years in Washington... it would be moronic to continue to trot a good run blocker out there to block Parsons 1 on 1 on the edge.
hes bad at it.... we get it.
In comment 16703593 Rick in Dallas said:
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| Did Schoen talk to Saban?? I actually don’t think he is guard material either. Man was I wrong about Neal. Ranks right up there with my awful assessment of Josh Rosen. No wonder this kid did not want to participate at the combine He would have been exposed!!! |
He is a freak athlete and powerful as hell. Thats enough when playing against kids and non-pros.
Hes not the first nick saban bama lineman to wash out.
In comment 16703427 lugnut said:
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| bizarre, I have no explanation at all. I don’t think this “confidence” thing has much merit (unless there’s something near mental illness in the mix - depression, anxiety?). I mean, if I’d played on the Bama OL for 4 years (3?) I think I’d be pretty damn confident. Seriously, what widely ballyhooed prospect has come here and NOT disappointed? Neal, Engram, KT, JMS, (Toney?) - I’d even add Barkley, though it wasn’t his fault. Now look at Barkley away from the Giants. This org just drags people down. |
Some of the others can be explained though.
Engram we kept trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. He was an H-back that we kept trying to play inline just to complain about his bad blocking. We also rarely targeted him past 5 yards.
Toney reeked of a panic move
Thibs I still have hope for.
JMS was an older prospect that wasn't that strong too begin with. I didnt have high expectations for him because of that (asking an older OL prospect to come in and expecting them to get bigger and play with more power rarely happens for 24 year old OLmen.) Joe Tippman is 2 years younger from the same draft and he had a better power profile. I think he can be average but now a plus player.
some other team will pick him up cheap and he will probably start for 10 years there. That's what we do.
Eluemunor Hubbard and Phillips can handle the OT duties.
In comment 16703669 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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| In comment 16703593 Rick in Dallas said: Quote: Did Schoen talk to Saban?? He is a freak athlete and powerful as hell. Thats enough when playing against kids and non-pros. Hes not the first nick saban bama lineman to wash out. |
Exactly. Why is it assumed he must be good and it's just a matter of finding his PIN # to unlock his potential?
It's very likely he hit his ceiling in Tuscaloosa and he just can't play at the professional level. And the quicker we accept that and move on, the better.
If Schoen stays, maybe we can get Neal on the Daniel Jones program and give him six years...
There have been past instances where it seems individuals who have outstanding size have been pressured into playing football when their heart/mentality isn’t really into it. They can get by in college, but fade in the pros. I got that vibe from some of the stories about Neal.
By moving him to G?
If they were to do that,it probably will happen in the off season.
and as good of a guy he seems to be- I've noticed his evaluations are a little overrated around here.
NTTAWTT because everyone was wrong on Neal.
The Giants mistake was not converting him midway through his sophomore season to Guard. Look at Becton. Giants have always been way too late to the party.
Mark it down- Evan Neal will go to another team and he an 8-10 year starter at Guard.
In comment 16703467 bw in dc said:
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| Neal peaked at Bama. And he just isn't cut out to handle the pace and physicality of the NFL. That happens. Unfortunately, it's happened to our lottery pick. |
Bingo!
In comment 16703449 Jerry in_DC said:
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| There are busts in the draft, even this high. It happens. But the magnitude of his bust is just insane. Everyone had him as a good prospect with a decent floor. Even like a 10th percentile outcome would've been decent run blocker/below average pass blocker. In reality, the guy is not even an NFL player. He's so bad. I know he didn't do one of the workouts blah blah. He had many years of games against the best competition in college football. There was plenty of sample here. And its not just like he's bad or disappointing. The guy can't play at all. My guess is that there is some injury and/or psychological issue happening. But we'll probably never know. As it stands, it's one of the bigger deltas between expectation and reality that we've seen in the league at this position. |
With all due respect, your statement on 10th percentile outcome is incorrect. The bust % on 1st round draft picks is pretty high, across the board, and despite what people think about them coming out of college.
It’s that simple Evan Neal can make a 10 year career at guard but as a tackle he is not a starting caliber player.
Shame on Schoen and Daboll for not moving him into that position to see what he can do. Malpractice mismanagement.
And he doesn't seem to sit his ass down in pass pro.
You still need athleticism there.
In comment 16703669 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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| In comment 16703593 Rick in Dallas said: Quote: Did Schoen talk to Saban?? He is a freak athlete and powerful as hell. Thats enough when playing against kids and non-pros. Hes not the first nick saban bama lineman to wash out. |
That part about the athleticism was never nailed down at the combine.
more powerful punch, deliver more absorb less, and timing of his punch.
he was highly questionable with a hip injury BEFORE the Dallas game. To me, he looked to be laboring. Facing Parsons with bad technique AND physically compromised AND not getting enough help is suicide. And it did happen.
Mentally, he has to be done now.
I had the same high expectations as everyone else. But, I don't think criticism of the pick is warranted. He was the consensus #1 or #2 OT in that draft, who, at times, was rated as high as the potential #1 pick. They didn't reach for him or over draft. That is just hindsight. He just never developed into an NFL player.
I think some of that is his physical limitations and some might even be on his work ethic. I think some might be poor coaching at the position. But, this year is especially disappointing because I expected him to finally show something with Bricillo. Oh well.
In comment 16703897 Blueworm said:
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| In comment 16703669 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 16703593 Rick in Dallas said: Quote: Did Schoen talk to Saban?? He is a freak athlete and powerful as hell. Thats enough when playing against kids and non-pros. Hes not the first nick saban bama lineman to wash out. That part about the athleticism was never nailed down at the combine. |
You need more athleticism to play T though.
Either way, it’s not just an athleticism issue. Bobby Skinner breaks down OL technique and Neal’s 1st step is really bad. Once you see it it’s hard not to understand why he’s struggling. The league is full of big nasty OL who fail to master the technique well enough to pan out in the NFL. You can dominate without it in college especially if you’re on a dominant team.
Fully expect him to go elsewhere and become a serviceable player.
In comment 16703897 Blueworm said:
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| In comment 16703669 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 16703593 Rick in Dallas said: Quote: Did Schoen talk to Saban?? He is a freak athlete and powerful as hell. Thats enough when playing against kids and non-pros. Hes not the first nick saban bama lineman to wash out. That part about the athleticism was never nailed down at the combine. |
It showed in games. He played a lot of them on a large stage with a lot of eyes on him. Athleticism is not his weakness, you didn't need underwear olympics to nail it down.
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